The bodies were found Friday inside the Grand Haven residence, police said, and the children were 5 to 15 years old.
A man fatally shot his wife and their six children before he set the Michigan home they shared ablaze and turned the gun on himself, authorities said Monday.
Kristopher Karolkiewicz, 47, killed his wife, Amanda, 39, and their children, ages 5 to 15, Ottawa County Sheriff’s Capt. Jake Sparks said at a news conference.
They were found dead after first responders arrived at the home in Grand Haven, on the eastern shore of Lake Michigan, late Friday morning, Sparks said. Autopsies showed all had been shot, he said.
This happens so much, their is a name for it “Family annihilation” or Familicide. It’s almost always the patriarch who does this. Women do it too, Andrea Yates comes to mind, but that’s much more rare.
I’ve always found it interesting that while men do familicide often, we forget about it. (Psychology Today puts the rate at 1 every 5 days in the US) Meanwhile women who do the crime like Yates or Smith become notorious for decades. Admit it, you’ve forgotten the name Kristopher Karolkiewicz from the article you just read, but you remember Susan Smith from 30 years ago.
I don’t remember any of their names, even the ones you wrote.
Nah, I don’t remember any of them.
Great comment. 90-95% of family annihilators are male. It’s usually a crime based on entitlement.
Is Andrea Yates considered a family annihilator? She didn’t kill herself or her husband.
Edit: Between 91-96% of family annihilators are men
Be salty all you want, this is something that is recorded. Men overwhelmingly are the ones to commit family annihilations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familicide
You don’t have to kill yourself to be classified as family annihilation killing multiple members of your family fits the criteria.
That men are the ones who do it most is no doubt but that other person is wrong with their comment I don’t remember any of their names in fact the only one I remember is the dude who did that and lied and they made Amityville Horror about it.
Only one I remember killing kids that’s a woman is Casey Anthony but it was really because of how broken the US justice system was that let hergo.
We can all acknowledge men are the prime perpetrators statistically with this type of crime without making up sexist things like “everybody only ever remembers the 2 women who do it” that isn’t true.
Casey Anthony is definitely not a family annihilator in the way we’re talking about, there was a single murder in that case.
We can all acknowledge men are the prime perpetrators statistically with this type of crime without making up sexist things like “everybody only ever remembers the 2 women who do it” that isn’t true.
I didn’t make this claim.
Yes I never said she was I said “the only woman killing kids I remember” is her.
Which kind of proves a point that I don’t even remember one single woman family annihilators name. Just one woman that killed her kids (I know that isn’t the same) and only because the whack ass justice system let her go Scott free.
And yeah that’s why I said that other persons comment wasn’t correct.
And I don’t even remember the dudes name Amytiville Horror is about either I just rememevr the movie and what really happened
I know there’s people who remember Andrea Yates by name. A handful of anecdotal evidence doesn’t disprove yesman’s point either way.
If we’re talking about familicide, let’s stick to the topic. Casey Anthony is not a family annihilator and her crimes are irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Ok so multiple children died and this person says
“PEOPLE ONLY EVER REMEMBER THE NAMES OF WOMEN WHO DO THIS”
and you said “great comment”
So I pointed out that I don’t know the names of any family annihilators and only one name of a woman who killed her kid at all and it was only because they just let her walk away with no repercussions.
That seems very on topic with the comment that was made.
Also your handful of anecdotal evidence doesn’t prove his comment correct either, and neither does theirs.
The claim about moslt men doing it is 100% corect and provable. The claim that “people only remember the women who do this” is anectdotal and not provable at all.
It was kind of weird to turn an article about children being murdered into an opinion piece on how society treats men and women different, to be honest.
Now if there was a whack court case and they let him go or something I could very much see why someone would make the comment but out of the blue to voice an unprovanle opinion like that sure was weird on an article about multiple children being murdered.
This happens so much, their is a name for it “Family annihilation” or Familicide. It’s almost always the patriarch who does this. Women do it too, Andrea Yates comes to mind, but that’s much more rare.
I’ve always found it interesting that while men do familicide often, we forget about it. (Psychology Today puts the rate at 1 every 5 days in the US) Meanwhile women who do the crime like Yates or Smith become notorious for decades. Admit it, you’ve forgotten the name Kristopher Karolkiewicz from the article you just read, but you remember Susan Smith from 30 years ago.
Your characterization of their initial comment is a bit unfair.
That user never stated that you made that claim. You left all the context out of your quote for some odd reason…
That men are the ones who do it most is no doubt but that other person is wrong with their comment
But then you go on to edit your original comment and claim this user is “being salty”
I didn’t claim that user was “being salty”. I think the people mass downvoting me for stating a relevant fact are being salty. I agree with @[email protected]
People are downvoting you for attempting to capitalize on a tragedy and derail the conversation toward your own toxic bigotry.
great comment
Why, because it portrays men as evil? Because that seems to be your whole point, simplifying the problem to be based around sex, and not overall societal concerns. And what does entitlement have to do with 90-95% of family annihilators being male, are you labeling all men as entitled?
What kind of nonsense is this? Nobody is claiming all men kill their family.
It’s like you didn’t even read a single word of my comment, kinda funny.
I read the entire thing (it’s not that long), and that’s what I’m responding to. And in it, you seem to be complaining that people are calling all men evil and entitled, which is not something anyone said. Just that the majority of family murderers are men, which is simply a fact. In fact, I strongly suspect the majority of any kind of murderers are men. But that doesn’t make all men murderers; that’s a fallacy and not a logical conclusion to draw.
that’s a fallacy and not a logical conclusion to draw
Which is exactly my point, as the person I was replying to was clearly implying that being male had something to do with the problem. If you don’t see that with their phrasing, then you’re being intentionally obtuse.
So like. What happened right before this? I’m not trying to justify it I’m just genuinely curious.
Was this just a crazy man who finally snapped? A crazy man pushed too far by outside influence? A spur of the moment murder suicide?
Outside of mental issues I’m not really coming up with many ideas on how this shit occurs
Seems like he was essentially the sole breadwinner and lost his job.
Why are the killings always in the wrong order…
I’ll never understand a man’s reasoning for doing that. How can one be an arbiter over the lives of your partner and kids…
I remembering seeing something similar happen in my state, father had lost their job and murdered their whole immediate family to prevent them from becoming homeless.
Nuts, but there are a lot of homeless around here and it does not get easy to pull yourself or your family out of that.
While Lemmy loves their memes and jokes about the government and the economy, this is what real world stress results in. I’m sure they will find a rich online life for this guy and recent financial trouble.
For every 1% increase in unemployment, 40,000 people die in a country with no social net. That’s what a shit hole is.
i love the big short too but i’m not sure that number is accurate https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/39267/do-40-000-people-die-in-the-united-states-for-every-1-increase-in-unemployment
Ironically I just went through a deep dive about this guy reading multiple news sources and they all say he recently lost his job as a vp for the sales department of the American heart association.
So yeah. Dude was stressing and I get it but, fuck. So much unnecessary death just because people willingly vote against their own self interests.
Removed by mod
In many if not most cases of family annihilation, it’s a loss or perceived loss of social or financial status. Dad or Mom or whoever can’t stand the idea of their kids growing up poor (or even just slightly less rich) and decide to not only take themselves, but everyone with them “to spare them the pain”.
It’s a disturbingly prevalent mindset really. The idea that the patriarch, the pater familias, literally owns the family. That his wife and children are possessions to do with as he pleases. In ancient Rome it was litteral. He could kill them if he wished. Not even unique to Rome. Its still around today. A sick aspect of conservative ideology that persists and infects society the world over.
Its the sickening undercurrent to conservative “parents rights” arguments.
Is it that, or is it that he’s the sole earner and losing his job means hardships for them he wants to spare them from?
Not saying it’s not a fucked up thing to do, but maybe, just maybe, we need better support for mens mental health instead of assuming it’s because their evil.
“reasoning” is not going to be the right word for whatever was going on in this guy’s head.
That seems like a dangerous way of thinking. You can’t ever hope to stop something if you refuse to understand it.
Eh, you can still analyse it, but it’s the kind of analysis a clinical psychologist might do.
✨patriarchy✨
And I’ll never understand a grandmother’s reason for doing this
90% of family annihilators are male.
Can’t we just agree that all family annihilation is bad?
Removed by mod
I’m not trying to derail the conversation. My initial post was directly relevant to the post it responded to, which was also building out from the original topic. That’s how conversations work.
You may not like where all conversations go, but you really must stop trying to be internet-policeman when other people are talking.
Removed by mod
You jumped in to present a case as a way to say “not all men”.
That’s not at all what I said, or implied. You seem quick to jump to that conclusion, but no. (I’m wondering how you even think that that reading makes sense in context)
I’m allowed to respond to that.
It would be great if you’d respond to what people actually say.
Ok, is there a point you’re making aside from “men are bad”
Was there a point toast was making beside whataboutism?
This case is a man killing his family and himself. Most family annihilators are male. That’s facts.
Wow, neat fact.
Yeah, it is. We need to be able to be honest about these kinds of stats in order to reduce them.
Ok—men are bad! Now what?
These people see family as property, not individuals with their own agency.
Was she going to divorce him or something? These pieces of shit always lose their minds over women leaving.
Its usually caused by either that or money. Says she was a substitute teacher.
I bet it was money related.
Probably divorce and “taking” his money for child support.
Lost his job. Seems like it wasn’t greed, but a fucked up way of “saving them” from suffering being poor.
Removed by mod
That and pregnancy :(
Removed by mod
“Amanda Karolkiewicz was a substitute teacher” as someone who substitutes while unemployed I can say it does not help much. They make it sound nice but more than likely she would have liked a full time position. No mention of the fathers job situation. It could be the typical thing but with the us having dumped on what few bits of help low income people have I kinda wonder.
I realise that it was probably him, but there’s no evidence presented in the article that the husband actually did it.
I agree, but what’s really weird for me is this part:
he wouldn’t say whether a firearm has been recovered from the fire-damaged residence
Yet the autopsies show that they were all shot. I imagine that the autopsies also show that he was the one to do it based on time of death, but odd that the article doesn’t present that evidence.
deleted by creator
