And this is what every young American is expected go into a lifetime of debt for.
No, this is a frat. These are rich children playing about to practice exploitation, dehumanizing faces they see every day, and allowing sociopath tendencies.
There’s zero debt in this picture. There’s donations to the university to keep most of these people enrolled.
No.
WTF is wrong with people…and pledges? it looks like people volunteer to be tortured just to join the torturers. Its sick and bizarre
Didn’t this happen before? It’s like time is a flat circle and I already saw the video and the people getting hazed were like eriely quiet
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Bail was $400.
Which is kind of shockingly low but two guys posting a $400 bail is not a trillion. Nor is it even “rich kid” money.
Remind me again why anyone tolerates these clubs full of alcoholics, date rapists, and psychopaths? Frats make zero positive contributions to society, ban and disband them all nationwide.
It shows they are willing to take abuse and follow orders without asking questions and not answer questions or reveal things to others. It lets employers and higher ups find people with those qualities which is part of why they fail upwards into management and administrative positions and end up in finance so frequently
Finance, government, law, business administration, etc.
Genuinely some do great public works but are overshadowed by this sort of nonsense.
Idk I was in a frat and it was mostly about volunteering and partying. No hazing that I was aware of. No pledging process. I ended up dropping because it felt a bit like paying for friends and I was broke. But many do really good work and are well meaning.
now do sororities
Don’t you dare!! Without sororities we won’t have any dorm porn!!!
Especially in the more elite institutions, these are the good ol’ boys clubs that funnel into positions of power.
It’s a long chain sunk-cost-fallacy. It starts with going to a party at the house and seeing all the guys and their camaraderie and realizing you are on the outside of that. Who doesn’t want to belong somewhere? You can build your own friend and family tribe over time but a frat gives you a whole community at once, a name, a gathering place, a permanent association that they tell you you will carry through life. Some of their dads are also still members. So you think wow and try to join. They say you’ll need to prove yourself. You don’t want to back down of course.
So you go through a few trials and chores. And from that point on, every chore or trial they hit you with is an opportunity to quit, but then everything you put into the previous chores and trials will be wasted so you persist. And ultimately, when you are inducted to the group, you value that more because of what you suffered to get it. It turns out value goes both ways deep in the human mind: something gives you great pleasure, it’s valuable if it can keep doing that. Something you now possess cost you great pain to get, it must be valuable and you’d better hold onto it so you don’t need to go through that again.
And then it’s on to the sadism and power flexing of putting others through it, secure in the knowledge that it won’t harm them because you endured it.
This is just a weird human social phenomenon that pops up no matter how many times it is banned. How do you get someone to join a group and stay loyal? Put them through hell to get in. They’ll never want to invalidate that investment.
Well, almost never. I did have one friend in college who went through the entire ordeal of rushing a frat and then on the day they were inducting members, he stepped up to the podium to be named a member and told them all to go fuck themselves and walked out forever. But I think he was the exception.
Would be impossible to ban, freedom of association is part of the first amendment after all
There are so many ways you could backdoor ban them though. You could ban colleges from having official associations with them. You could take away their tax exempt status.
Those are probably the easiest before you get creative with new finance laws and other methods.
You 100% can ban colleges from associating. Although this case the college was already unaffiliated.
As for taxes that might be a bit more difficult. They kinda just fall into the category of social club which is a very encompassing tax exempt status.
tax exempt? social club? brb about to do more tax avoidance
That’s just locker room talk.
We wouldn’t have the phrase “cunt punt” without the greek system.
Frankly, any organization that has hazing should be eradicated. It is just abuse dressed up as tradition.
Traditional abuse is traditional!
Including medical residencies tbh
The dude who came up with that system was straight up wired on cocaine all the time.
“Bro idk what the problem is just sleep in the closet for 45 minutes.”
William Stewart Halsted seems to be a very well regarded physician and developed several techniques and tools that bear his name to this day.
But he was in fact addicted to cocaine throughout his career, and later morphine.
Yep, my brother in law has to work 100-110 hours per week in his residency, completely illegal, but I guess some bullshit “rite of passage” not to mention they made him move 3000km away with his newborn child.
Heh, you just described Agile and about 7 other workplace methodologies.
Agile
Shit is that still around? I resisted it with everything I had when I worked in software development. It was clear from the start that it was a cult. I’d assumed that it had died off by now.
They keep putting frameworks under it with other names, but it’s def still in use most places.
Nope, it’s the standard everywhere I’ve been
Do you want to put hours on that?
7 story points please
Which epic does this belong in? Or do we need a new epic?
Put it in EPIC-32714, that’s the epic of epics, make sure you set it to blocked, leaving it on backlog triggers the automation to send threatening letters to the CEO.
Since the hazing was interrupted, these poor dudes are going to have to attend ketchup classes.
and then the onion dip, and mustard, and mayo wrestling.
Where I went to college, one of the frats just the year before I started had gotten kicked off campus because at a party at the frat house, some of the members beat up a pledge and kicked him down the basement stairs and he broke his neck and died. His corpse wasn’t discovered until late the next day. Nobody was punished criminally because they couldn’t identify who had actually done it, so the expulsion of the frat was the only penalty. The frat house got turned into a dorm for international students, and every few weeks members of the fraternity (which still existed but off-campus) would run through the building and trash the public spaces and harass any international students they encountered. These students were in a constant state of fear because of this.
To my great surprise, this college a couple of decades later banned all greek organizations entirely. It was a pretty wild decision because when I went there, 90% of the students were in fraternities or sororities. Good riddance.
Holy crap…
And people questioned Brett Boofinaugh. I wouldn’t hesitate to think that there were plenty of parties with Gang Bang Greg and Handsy Hank.
Lemme guess, SAE?
Same Assholes Everywhere
Could have been, I don’t remember. I tried to find a news article about it but this was from too long ago - mid 1980s.
Greek life was pretty mild at my college but this is the only one that got kicked off campus.
I’m gonna say it
I don’t really feel bad for people who sign up to be hazed
And before anyone rages at me, I do understand there are people who get actually forced into it. But situations like these, c’mon. They knew what they were getting into. Stupid prizes
no one gets forced into joining a frat. Its a decision each person makes. Not all frats are bad either, but like people willingly chose the bad ones knowing their reputation and meeting their members.
I really don’t either, but it should still be criminalized for the violent conspiratorial hierarchies it creates. The fact that it’s normalized in so many people’s minds is IMO a huge issue.
They might have a vague idea that something happens, but it’s not like they’re invited by someone saying “hey want to come sit in a hot dirty basement after we throw condiments at you?”
Hazing (and lots of other kinds of abuse) exploit that uncertainty and the reluctance to back out.
Sometimes I think society gets a little full of itself with this behavior though. To me it’s like the whole “I can die for my country but can’t have a drink” argument, we police too much behavior.
I think 18 is too young to drink. I think 18 is too young to go to war and tie yourself to insane debt as well.
18 is not too young to make your choices about your friends, hobbies and what stupid shit you wanna get into like agreeing to be hazed. I guess a college or university can argue they have a right to be against it but I think by 18 you should know better and the police shouldn’t really have the right to tell you to stop this behavior if nobody is actually in physical danger.
What about mental or emotional danger? For example, sexual abuse is not an uncommon form of hazing, and it’s objectively harmful, but not necessarily physically. There are plenty of cases of people white are forcibly penetrated with objects or body parts, or required to perform degrading acts.
But that falls into people being harmed and as awful as it is and shouldn’t happen that becomes something they probably need to report. You could say the same argument about getting drunk or going hiking. People are targeted there as well but that doesn’t mean the police can just not let you engage in those activities based on that.
Statistically on top of it all more people die and are maimed driving by a massive amount, more people die in barfights and arguments on the street, more suffering comes from other sources so to say it’s a big problem just isn’t true. It comes down to people can do what they want to do
I asked because you specified physical danger. Ignoring other forms of harm would allow the things I mentioned, as well as cases I think we all can agree are wrong, like abuse of a position of power for sex.
All the frats are getting caught selling blow and playing with ketchup now. I dont think these youngsters were around when the headlines were all about buttstuff.
It comes with a lot of opportunity with allums
Nothing prepares one for the modern workforce like allowing the grandson of an important CEO penetrate your ass with a foreign object!
Yessir the first time in your life you get to sell your soul for a step up the old corporate ladder. A true coming of age! Nothing prepares you more for swallowing your integrity and closing your eyes to the bad shit you see!
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Did the university know they were still in operation?
Alpha Epsilon Pi was kicked off campus as a recognized chapter in 2015, but the organization maintained a presence at the Madison home.
Edit 2: What? Why would it still be allowed to exist? So they did know about it at the university level. What made them be kicked out from the university originally?
The university said in a statement that while it stopped recognizing Alpha Epsilon Pi about a decade ago, the national organization has continued to recognize the Madison chapter, allowing it to exist in the community.
This is america bro they can’t stop these dudes from running a party house, in fact the more they try the more allure it has for the participants. “The bad boy frat” is an american media icon.
The university does not have the authority to block students from participating in an off-campus organization unaffiliated with the university, basically.
They usually have a code of conduct, though. They can put whatever they want in the code, and expell students for violations.
Are US universities in such a situation that they can’t collect enough tuition without tolerating otherwise unacceptable behavior?
Code of conduct at a public university cannot block a student from constitutional rights. Freedom of association is part of the first amendment.
As messed up as it is I don’t think a public university could ban a student from joining the KKK even. Which is way worse than a fraternity
Private is a different matter entirely
minor correction the KKK is a fraternity as well. Maybe they’ve started allowing women in but, historically its an american frat.
Another normal day in Dumbfuckistan…
Such a strange country.
It’s amazing how many of them take pride in shit like this.
Dont put pride on a pedestal. Find me someone proud of something…
“Filthy” is the default state of a frat house basement. The rest is fucked up though.
I mean, I defend peoples rights to cover themselves in condiments and hang out in a filthy basement. I know thats pushing what is socially acceptable but the public health hazard is real low on this one imo.
Now if they werent free to leave… sounds like I know of 30 people who were getting abused in unsettling ways.
Double Secret Probation!
Why are we putting our best future divorced middle managers through Midwest Guantanamo bay?
No person may intentionally or recklessly engage in acts which endanger the physical health or safety of a student for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with any organization operating in connection with a school, college or university. Under those circumstances, prohibited acts may include any brutality of a physical nature, such as whipping, beating, branding, forced consumption of any food, liquor, drug or other substance, forced confinement or any other forced activity which endangers the physical health or safety of the student.
It’s pretty crazy that such a law had to be created but here we are.
Funny how focused it is on “physical health.” You can psychologically abuse the fuck out of them, just make sure there’s no physical evidence.
