- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/52272272
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Let’s at least be honest about this. Democrat like schumer and jeffries aren’t liberal. They are just paid corporate lackeys.
“Liberal” is a useless term because it means something else to everyone.
I meaning the same is true for leftist tho
Not to the same degree. In Europe, liberals are exactly people like the Dem leadership: free market true believers. People that explicitly reject “the social question”.
They consider themselves right wing.
I mean sure… but the country dealing with the most widespread and rapid rise of fascism due to the complicity of liberals at the moment is the US.
Simultaneously most western european countries while dealing with the same issue to a lesser extent are reigning in a lot of the mechanisms that allowed fascism to take hold.
In light of the above it’s likely and logical that OP is aimed at the US, which is obviously not in europe.
And in the US liberals and leftists are synonymous.
the country dealing with the most widespread and rapid rise of fascism due to the complicity of liberals at the moment is the US.
Debatable but ok.
are reigning in a lot of the mechanisms that allowed fascism to take hold.
🤡
And in the US liberals and leftists are synonymous.
🤡🤡🤡
Liberal
Why are you talking about watermelon production legislation policies???
/sillyjoke
It should be par with liberty and they’re more aligned with workers, whereas the conservatives are sichophants and lackeys.
It ”should”? According to whom? In about half the world it means the opposite.
Yeah, the southern conservatives (of today) really contorted the place – for their gain.
And what do you think liberals are?
extinct.
Since when?
🤣
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The whole point
Whose?
Here’s a tip: When you see “deleted by creator”, it means someone changed their mind.
In this case, I realized I had conflated your response with another response - you had not replied to someone else I’d misread initially that you had.
So now you wasted your time and mine. :P
They’re also not Nazis. That’s where my bar is now.
Sounds pretty liberal to me. Liberal means pro capitalism right?
What’s in a name? that which we call a
By any other name would smell as shit.
The Liberal party in Sweden is about to crash out of parliament after compromising with the fascist to have a couple of seats in the government. Bye bye!
More importantly, does Frodo denounce Hasan Piker?
Far left really getting angry when people don’t agree with every point they make, and no, I’m not refering to the strawman allowing fascism to permiate like in this post.
That’s the authoritarian left, not the far left. Tankies would very much like you to think like they do and fight for the glory of China/Russia/North Korea.
russians are not very left lately. more like very-very-very far right. it doesn’t matter though because these guys are wackjobs with no real ideology.
True, which makes it even more wild that tankies stan Russia.
Not really, when you realize that tankies are fundamentally authoritarian.
Bit like how 1984 was banned in the US for being pro communist and banned in the USSR for being pro capitalist, when in reality, it’s anti-authoritarian.
The vocal minority sure is. I’m guessing a large majority are keeping their heads down and hoping they don’t get drafted.
or they are complacent. if these folks really disliked their precious regime - it would’ve been long gone. but it is not. that’s probably means something.
Eh, everyone is complacent. That’s not a Russian thing, that’s a people thing.
not everywhere
Americans have entirely surrendered to trump, Europe is entirely surrendering to government surveillance via chat control, ME is basically just warlords and Israel freely bombing whoever they want.
Everyone is complacent.
Even tho they’re objectivly not communists, weird.
Yeah, modern China would’ve shocked Mao and most of the OGs
This meme format doesn’t really fit the situation
Liberals that aren’t really liberals but act like it for votes while kissing the ring of the corporate state.
Liberalism is propaganda created by the wealthy people to justify doing whatever the fuck they want. Everything about it is a lie except choice, the one thing liberalism can actually lay claim to.
I’m excited for the mid terms where we lose because we’re divided.
Yeah, right. Some people need to learn history.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, *left.
(don’t read anything into this beyond a silly pun because that’s all it is)
Nobody ask what comrad Molotov was doing in '39!
How did this thread become about the Hitler-Chamberlain pact and the Molotov Ribbentrop pact all of a sudden?
The meme is about never compromising with fascists.
You can argue that both Stalin/Molotov and Chamberlain had good reasons to sign a (temporary) compromise with fascist Germany. Which means you believe you should sometimes compromise with fascists.
Or you can argue that Stalin and Chamberlain were wrong to compromise with fascists. Which means you agree with the meme that you should never compromise with fascists.
But this meme was originally posted on lemmy.ml, where a lot of users will reflexively defend Stalin for compromising with fascist Germany (they’re also here) but then post memes which say it’s never ok to compromise with fascists. Which is double think. You either think it’s sometimes acceptable, or you think it’s never acceptable to compromise with fascists.
Cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort people feel when their beliefs conflict with each other. People often react in weird ways when they’re suffering from it. You can witness plenty of it in this comment section.
Well said! Chamberlain’s appeasement is rightfully excorciated while Stalin’s collaboration is excused and defended. Fucking pathetic how ideologues bend and twist.
Godric is a zionazi who makes fake shit up about everyone and everything the pissrael settler occupation base hates.
Apparently the “alliance with Hitler” phase of the Soviet Union is a hotbutton issue for .ml users
Next up Red Fascism.
Hush now.
I think you’ll find that when Stalin compromised with fascists, that was a very good thing, that’s why despite being very proud of making this supposedly necessary compromise, discussing the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was taboo in the Soviet Union till 1989. They simply didn’t want to make a big thing of it, because Stalin was such a modest and down to earth guy.
LOL
Always funny watching the tankies tie themselves in knots defending it.
Eh…
The amount of people who consider themselves progressives but who still want a DNC picking favorites in primaries is still really fucking high.
The end goal needs to be an unbiased party (and that’s what we have right now) because that’s the only way primary voters get to pick the candidate they want.
We don’t need a DNC that favors progressives, because Dem voters favor progressive policy.
It’s like Usain Bolt showing up for a JR high field day. We don’t need to rig the games, we’re obviously going to win as long as it’s a fair race.
Under no scenario should “the party” be telling voters who to support during any primary.
Ah yes, I forgot
- …facts were determined by public opinion polls?
- …that the Soviets definitely didn’t rely on wartime propaganda? Or maybe that official US and UK documents didn’t show officials conceding to support and amplify USSR propaganda in order to stabilize a fragile wartime cooperation?
- …that people of war ravaged mainland Europe had a magical ability to fully digest and comprehend the largest war in human history a few months after it ended? Including contributions from continents on the other side of the world?
- …that the general population of Europe in 1945 (many born in the 19th century; before planes, trucks, tanks; in an age where sailing ships still had value; before widespread use of even the basic machine gun) had a strong appreciation for the rapid advancement of military technology and the ballooning complexity of modern warfare? They certainly were doing a deeper analysis than looking at frontlines and death tolls.
- …that they all had immediate access to the still highly classified documents on military technology, strategy and logistics? [Christ, May 1945 was still months before THE ATOMIC BOMBS were dropped…]
- …that internal Nazi documents didn’t show a strong strategic reaction to the threat of US involvement, US & UK strategic bombing, and newly opened Allied fronts? Hitler was ordering troops away from the battle of Kursk toward Italy… just for fun I guess. The random French citizen clearly knew better.
Wtf are we even trying to say here… Classic ML chart that masquerades as an argument ending bombshell but actually means fucking nothing.
Why would anyone think the US of all countries?
Propaganda
Yes, the Soviets did eventually go to war with Nazi Germany after a few years, finding out the hard way fascists don’t honor Friendship Treaties, nobody would dispute that.
Whataboutism. Godric, what is your deal? Everything you post on this subject is so meh. You seem to simultaneously care so much, yet are so uninformed. Did a communist rear end you at some point? This all feels like some weird little personal vendetta at this point, and I just don’t really understand what you get out of this.
Meme about collaboration with fascists
Mentions the whole “allied with Hitler” phase communists had
BRO WHAT IS YOUR DEAL, WHADDABOUDISM
If you are genuinely curious, pointing out the abject hypocrisy with one picture and watching the subsequent morally+intellectually bankrupt shapes people twist themselves into to defend a literal alliance with Adolf Hitler is its own reward. It’s like how mentioning Trump’s friendship with Epstein to redcaps gets them frothing at the mouth with wild excuses to defend their team.
Who’s the dude on the right?
Ribbentrop, Nazi Germany’s Minister of Foreign Affairs. This picture was taken after the Soviet Union agreed to collaborate with Nazi Germany to invade Poland together.
Thanks, there’s so many bastards in the world it’s hard to remember all their faces.
But ultimately that picture is a “communist” fascist working with a “socialist” fascist. Both bastardising words and definitions to gain popular support. There are no leftists in that picture.
Don’t tell lemmy.ml. Some of their users might realise they’re not genuinely left wing.
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oh yay more lemmy.ml bullshit
This is pure nonsense to divide the left. Get fucked.
do you think liberals are left?
Fascism and authoritarianism is something everyone thinks they can use, until it eats them.
Centrists think they can compromise with fascism to keep the status quo.
Right-wingers eagerly use fascism to get what they want and don’t even pretend to give it up.
Left-wingers use fascism with the promise that they’ll give it up once the revolution is complete, and then never give it up.
Fascism, like the One Ring, is power manifest. You want it to achieve your goals, but once you have it, it’s almost impossible to relinquish that power.
“Authoritarianism” is a term made up by fascist sympathizers to conflate fascism with communism.
Right so Stalin and Mao were such cuddly misunderstood blokes who didn’t have their political enemies tortured, raped and murdered in that order…
Anarchists are far-left and don’t believe in wielding authority until after a revolution, or at all.
I think its such a perfect comparison because Tolkien meant for the ring to be a physical representation for fascism. Much of Tolkien’s work was heavily influenced from his experiences in World War I
You make a good point, but it’s too absolute. Every single one of these groups has members who do refuse to use fascism.
And yet there are those that do, and they inevitably end up being the ones with power and kill those who refuse to use fascism. For example: Tankies.
Fascism, like the One Ring, is power manifest. You want it to achieve your goals, but once you have it, it’s almost impossible to relinquish that power.
People give up power all the time…
The current DNC chair inherited over a billion dollar war chest from the neoliberals to do anything with he wanted, zero oversight or rules.
He dumped it back to the state parties it was stolen from instead of using it to bribe state parties into what he wanted.
The way to fight fascism, is to keep power distributed.
We don’t have to consolidate power, that’s always been an option. And next election we have a shot at electing a president that will limit their own power, and the power of every future president.
Compromise is unfathomable to liberals
Lemmy.ml seems to have forgotten about the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. LOL
Pure whataboutism.
Pure whataboutism.
Meme: Don’t compromise with fascists!
Me: Remember that time Stalin compromised with fascists?
You: That’s a distraction!
Or has actually studied the history of the period and come to understand that the MR was necessary, and the correct move to buy time to fight against fascism after every European power had rejected an anti-Nazi alliance, hoping Hitler would awaken the USSR enough that the Allied Capitalist Powers could then crush both.
Cope, Stalin was just as much of a dictator as Hitler.
blablabla.
TLDR: a temporary 10 year compromise with fascists was deemed necessary.
Stalin: “I can compromise with them.”
USSR: finds a way to stall the fascists with a gun to its head
The rest of Europe: happily supports the fascists when they think they can use them as an attack dog against socialism, only sees a problem when the dog shits on the carpet.
ShitLibs, 75 years later: these are the same thing.
USSR: finds a way to stall the fascists with a gun to its head
AKA a temporary compromise with fascists.
Yeah, I already said we know you think it’s the same thing. Honestly this says a lot more about your historical literacy and critical thinking skills than it does about the USSR or Molotov-Ribbentrop.
Pointing out communists made imperialistic deals to pre-emptively strike neutral nations alongside Nazi Germany is historical illiteracy?
Ok bud, be mad Communist action was “no, I can collaborate with it” until the tanks started rolling across the boarder.
Pointing out communists made imperialistic deals to pre-emptively strike neutral nations alongside Nazi Germany is historical illiteracy?
Believing that’s what happened sure as fuck is.
You can say that, but it leaves out the important context that it was necessary because the liberal industrialized powers were also engaged in appeasement at the time.
It also leaves out that the USSR went on to put more resources toward stopping the Nazis than any other industrialized power as soon as they did have the industry to stand up the Germany.
When the liberal powers had the capacity to have done that much earlier.
the USSR went on to put more resources toward stopping the Nazis than any other industrialized power
And with incredible results to boot. 7 out of 10 Nazis killed in WWII were at the hands of Soviets.
You can say that, but …
TLDR: “Stalin compromised with fascists, but yadayada.”
More like TLDR: Liberals compromised with fascist even when they could have stopped them, the Soviets compromised only as long as they had no other choice.
the Soviets compromised
Correct. Stalin compromised with fascists.
they had no other choice.
They could have chosen to not compromise with fascists from 1939-1941
the Soviets compromised only as long as they had no other choice.
They compromised until they had no other choice, because the Nazis invaded.
They could have chosen to not compromise from 1939-1941. You know, like liberal democracy Britain.
TLDR: Don’t compromise with fascists.
