• danc4498@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    I had a conservative friend tell me there’s an entire conspiracy around this. And this guy was basically mentally unstable and convinced to bring the gun to this location.

    In reality, Israel installed those pager explosives in his microphone that sent something into his neck. The main argument is that the gun used would have done significantly more damage.

    • cloudshouter@lemmy.zip
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      21 hours ago

      I don’t consider most conservative hunters and shooters to actually be very skilled or knowledgeable. This is based very heavily on a lot of experience and interactions. A human neck bone will definitely stop a 30-06. It might be a flesh sack of spine gravel, but having no explosion of gore is not a surprise.

      It was the most effective way to get him to shut up though. Really cute that it happened after he got dog walked so publicly by the Cambridge student.

      • WizardOfFrobozz@lemmy.ca
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        16 hours ago

        It’s the most effective way to get all MAGA trash to shut up. Take notes. Only one thing ever stopped Nazis.

    • MadBits@europe.pub
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      23 hours ago

      Imagine getting shot with that caliber and not having your neck turn to jello while literal steel can’t fucking take the hit. Also imagine assembling the gun only with a screwdriver, only to have to have it disassembled again before going on a run (all while leaving the screwdriver behind) in the span of like what? 10 seconds? And then for some reason in a forest, before tossing out the evidence, he assembles it back again (with no screwdriver this time). And what a coincidence it is that he left it in a forest on Black Rocks land parcel.

      • cloudshouter@lemmy.zip
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        22 hours ago

        Everyone knows it’s faster to draw your backup screwdriver than to reload the primary screwdriver.

      • cloudshouter@lemmy.zip
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        22 hours ago

        Everyone knows it’s faster to draw your backup screwdriver than to reload the primary screwdriver.

      • danc4498@lemmy.world
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        22 hours ago

        I certainly am curious how this trial is going to go. My gut tells me that, just like Mangione, the prosecutors have much more data than they’re giving us. Of course, Mangione pled guilty, this guy is going to have a trial.

    • theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Sometimes bullets do really weird things, so I’m not saying it isn’t what happened, but it was a 30-06 rifle round which really should have done signficantly more damage from that range, so it is strange at the least.

      • MadBits@europe.pub
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        16 hours ago

        Yea, no. 7.62×63mm will take out a moose and not one hunter will tell you that “yea, sometimes they do weird things, man”. It will take you out easily. They even said that “he had strong bones”, nah… nah he didn’t.

        • ContactClosure@lemmus.org
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          3 hours ago

          Please state your credentials on the matter. I am a hobbyist that has never shot a human but a 30-06 is a big fucking round going really fucking fast and necks are really fucking soft. The entry may be small but that exit is going to be significant. In my opinion.

          • 87Six@lemmy.zip
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            1 hour ago

            Yea afaik for a bullet that size, size and inertia of the bullet can cause damage much wider than the bullet size itself.

            It doesn’t need to hit bone or anything for that… A youtube video can show that on one of those soft blobs.

          • MBech@feddit.dk
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            2 hours ago

            My understanding is that the exit will often be big because of the bullet hitting bone and shit, making it flatter and thus destroy a lot more on the way out. The neck is soft and there isn’t much of it. If the bullet didn’t hit his spine, the bullet would be intact, and the exit hole would be pretty tiny.

            • zqps@sh.itjust.works
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              1 hour ago

              Yep, the neck being soft is an argument against gory splatter action. Ballistic gel is soft too.

      • BarrelAgedBoredom@lemmy.zip
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        24 hours ago

        We also don’t have any pictures of the exit wound. There couldve be a huge chunk missing from the back of his neck that the camera couldn’t capture at that angle

      • danc4498@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        I know nothing about guns or bullets, but is it possible the type of gun, or the specific bullet mattered?

        • FullPenguin@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          No, not really. The type of gun doesn’t make a difference aside from the length of the barrel, but that’s pretty negligible for anything remotely normal (i.e. not a ~4-10inch barrel in this case).

          Same thing with the cartridge/bullet, total energy varies bullet to bullet, but again, in a negligible way.

          The real explanation is that the damage people expect from this cartridge is caused by hydrostatic shock: the shockwave caused by the bullet entering and slowing down significantly (transferring energy). Hitting somewhere soft and without much muscle mass, the side of the neck, let the bullet pass through without transferring a ton of energy.

            • FullPenguin@lemmy.world
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              3 hours ago

              No… I said that a 30.06 cartridge can be loaded to multiple pressures and fire different weight projectiles. All effecting total muzzle energy, but without some really funky loads, it’s not deviating enough from the norm to cause the effect OP described in their conspiracy theory.

              How do you possibly take the whole of my explanation and think that I’m trying to say the say the bullet type doesn’t matter?

            • MadBits@europe.pub
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              16 hours ago

              Fun fact, the company that paved is also israeli and quickly dissolved after doing that job. Company closed soon after the job was done. It’s literally nothing suspicious, Charlies neck can just do that, companies also do that sometimes too… it’s just average actions. Nothing to see here.

          • theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            The type of gun can matter, for example an autoloading rifle is not quite as powerful as a bolt action rifle because it uses some of the energy to cycle the bolt and load the next bullet. The shooter allegedly used a bolt action rifle, though, which should basically be “the most powerful” type of rifle.

            • ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de
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              15 hours ago

              OMG, listening to some of y’all talk about this shit that have no experience or business trying to explain about ballistics and rifles and ammunition etc. is just hilarious.

        • BillyClark@piefed.social
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          1 day ago

          The type of bullet definitely, 100% matters. Some bullets have more mass than other bullets, and the material of the bullet can be harder or softer. All of that will affect the type of damage. The amount of powder used to fire the bullet also affects its kinetic energy when hitting the target.

      • warm@kbin.earth
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        1 day ago

        Do we have loads of data on bullets being shot at this exact location at this exact range against a real human? Nobody can predict this, no matter how much they love their guns.

        • UnspecificGravity@piefed.social
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          1 day ago

          Yes.

          The 30.06 rifle has literally killed tens of thousands of people at every range imaginable. It is easily among the most well studied weapons on earth. This is easily among the most common weapons in the United States and this cartridge was the standard issue rifle cartridge for both world wars.

          • yucandu@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Who’s the guy with experience/expertise on this subject saying it should have done more damage?

            • Grimy@lemmy.world
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              24 hours ago

              Bring an expert that says the contrary instead of throwing vague shade. It’s the consensus in most fire arm circles from what I understand.

              Lots of other things don’t add up as well (like paving over the crime scene a week later).

              • meco03211@lemmy.world
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                9 hours ago

                I neck shot my deer last year with a 30.06. No huge exit wound. Obliterated the spine. We usually hang them from the head but had to hang this one by the hind legs.

              • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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                19 hours ago

                If everyone is saying it you should have a source to backup the theory. It’s not everyone elses’ responsibility to disprove it.

    • IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com
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      24 hours ago

      I don’t believe that conspiracy, but I do believe this kid was set up. This is what gangstalking is for. Manipulating loners or people that don’t meet social standards.

    • h0tbeef@lemmy.zip
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      1 day ago

      Yeah, I’m no ballistics expert myself, but if you look up videos of a ballistic Test dummy getting shot in the neck at that range with that caliber bullet, it appears that (if the details of the official story were true) his head would have likely entirely detached from his body.

      • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
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        1 day ago

        Nonsense. It depends on how.much it slowed (from that distance, quite a lot), whether it tumbled (from that distance, likely), and where it actually struck.

        A sword can take someone’s head off. It can also pass through soft tissue and simply nick a major artery. It depends on where it hits and how hard.

        • h0tbeef@lemmy.zip
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          23 hours ago

          To be clear, they did the Test at the same distance.

          They didn’t mention the tumbling thing, but I assume that’s just because it’s a higher level concept than the demographic the video was designed for would be familiar with. (I don’t really have any knowledge on that aspect myself, not trying to say I do).

          As far as where the bullet hit, I’m going just off of the video and official narrative. In the video it looks like he’s having a fencing response, which would indicate that he was hit with force and not just glanced/grazed.

          In the official narrative they claim that the bullet got lodged in one of his vertebrae and stopped because his neck was “abnormally resilient”, or because “that’s what god wanted” depending on who you ask.