It also can integrate with Systemd via Quadlets. Let’s you control containers as a sytemd service. I personally use them for my home server and have been happy with it.
The learning curve for quadlets is quite harsh in my opinion. I started with podman compose 3 years ago for my homelab, because it allowed user containers.
I tried to migrate to quadlets unsuccessfully, several times over the years. it was only recently that my self-hosted Qwen was capable enough to figure out where I was messing up and automate the process a bit.
I probably wasn’t sufficiently motivated. It felt like podman compose is basically docker compose, but quadlets are a quite a bit different in form and function, so I was never able to grok them:
I migrated from docker containers on Unraid to using quadlets on RockyLinux. The Podlet utility helped a bit with taking an existing docker container and converting it to a quadlet. Also did thorough testing in a VM before swapping my server.
I remember trying it and my compose files blew up to multiple Quadlet files with a much larger total size (lines of code). I find that compose is just more concise and structured compared to Quadlets.
It does have a larger file size compared to compose, sure. The big advantage of quadlets is that systemd will handle things in the event of a failure. It makes it a great option for production environments where you will not need to update your config files as much. It also allows you to have more control over when each application starts, if they rely on a specific disk mount or service running on the system. I’m sure someone else can provide more benefits who use them in a production environment.
Fair enough. My requirements are simply: start all services when the machine has finished booting. And I can’t remember the last time my system failed. Most that happened was a power outage, and Quadlets wouldn’t have helped there either.
So in my case I much prefer simple and easy-to-read configs, over the complexity of integrating with systemd.
The version that is installable from the repositories of Linux distros is all open source. Docker itself, the container engine and runtime are all open source. Nobody cares about stuff like docker desktop or docker sbx, not only are they not critical to the software itself, they aren’t that useful or valuable.
I don’t mean Docker Desktop, I mean docker-cli and moby.
Just because something has a FOSS license and is open-sourced in some code forge doesn’t mean that it effectively respects some (or even all) of the four freedoms.
Are you sure about that? I see Copyright at the bottom (maybe the name) and is free only for personal tier, everything else costs money. Maybe some of the containers are open source per https://www.docker.com/products/trusted-content/open-source/ but I don’t see where it says anywhere that the actual software that is docker is OSS let alone FOSS.
I found Docker pretty easy to install. Though apparently it’s harder on windows, where they suggest you just use docker desktop, in which case, yeah, fair point. But I’d just put docker in WSL if I had the misfortune of having to use it on Windows.
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I choose Podman bc it’s open source and that’s kind of the reason for using everything as a container bc those are often also open source. Fuck docker
What exactly is your problem with Docker? It’s open source.
Also closed-source container images exist.
Haha idk, nothing really. Just found a lot of recommendations over Docker for podman.
Also it’s more secure and performant as it’s rootless and daemonless.
It also can integrate with Systemd via Quadlets. Let’s you control containers as a sytemd service. I personally use them for my home server and have been happy with it.
The learning curve for quadlets is quite harsh in my opinion. I started with podman compose 3 years ago for my homelab, because it allowed user containers.
I tried to migrate to quadlets unsuccessfully, several times over the years. it was only recently that my self-hosted Qwen was capable enough to figure out where I was messing up and automate the process a bit.
I probably wasn’t sufficiently motivated. It felt like podman compose is basically docker compose, but quadlets are a quite a bit different in form and function, so I was never able to grok them:
There is a tool named Podlet that can help translate to quadlets. I was able to fully translate my unraid and compose setups to quadlets.
Are u running podman containers on Unraid or did you migrate away?
I migrated from docker containers on Unraid to using quadlets on RockyLinux. The Podlet utility helped a bit with taking an existing docker container and converting it to a quadlet. Also did thorough testing in a VM before swapping my server.
I remember trying it and my compose files blew up to multiple Quadlet files with a much larger total size (lines of code). I find that compose is just more concise and structured compared to Quadlets.
It does have a larger file size compared to compose, sure. The big advantage of quadlets is that systemd will handle things in the event of a failure. It makes it a great option for production environments where you will not need to update your config files as much. It also allows you to have more control over when each application starts, if they rely on a specific disk mount or service running on the system. I’m sure someone else can provide more benefits who use them in a production environment.
Fair enough. My requirements are simply: start all services when the machine has finished booting. And I can’t remember the last time my system failed. Most that happened was a power outage, and Quadlets wouldn’t have helped there either.
So in my case I much prefer simple and easy-to-read configs, over the complexity of integrating with systemd.
Wtf I thought docker was foss. Fml man
Docker is foss. Docker desktop and docker sbx are not.
It’s FOSS, but not Libre, and more close to open-core than to open source.
It can’t be FOSS but not Libre, the Free in FOSS means Libre. And it also can’t be FOSS but not opensource, of course.
The version that is installable from the repositories of Linux distros is all open source. Docker itself, the container engine and runtime are all open source. Nobody cares about stuff like docker desktop or docker sbx, not only are they not critical to the software itself, they aren’t that useful or valuable.
I don’t mean Docker Desktop, I mean docker-cli and moby.
Just because something has a FOSS license and is open-sourced in some code forge doesn’t mean that it effectively respects some (or even all) of the four freedoms.
The version you get from Debian does respect all four freedoms.
Are you sure about that? I see Copyright at the bottom (maybe the name) and is free only for personal tier, everything else costs money. Maybe some of the containers are open source per https://www.docker.com/products/trusted-content/open-source/ but I don’t see where it says anywhere that the actual software that is docker is OSS let alone FOSS.
The core of Docker is called Moby, which is open source on GitHub. So are docker-cli and compose
Ah, explains the whale!
If you install the GUI it literally won’t let you open it unless you agree to their telemetry…
Ah ok, that doesn’t affect me but still, what a bummer
Docker is open source though. Docker desktop is not.
Which can be a pretty big deal.
This works out to: The product is unencumbered, but the only reliable installer is encumbered as fuck.
That’s a “no thanks”, from me.
I don’t need the sword of “Docker fucking with my colleague’s ability to collaborate” hanging over each of my projects.
I’m not mad at folks using Docker for backwards compatibility. I just don’t need to make the problem worse.
I found Docker pretty easy to install. Though apparently it’s harder on windows, where they suggest you just use docker desktop, in which case, yeah, fair point. But I’d just put docker in WSL if I had the misfortune of having to use it on Windows.
So, the Docker engine is free, just not the software under certain stipulations. See I don’t like that. A weird caveat for using it.
What do you mean? I don’t see any CLAs or anything like that in the source code.
https://github.com/moby/moby
https://github.com/docker/cli
This
NOTICEin both repos is weird asf:Also, they do limit some kind of uses if you don’t pay.
That’s true of all software. It may be subject to restrictions by governments. But in this case, it seems to refer to the fact that the US restricted export of cryptographic software, and seemingly continues to restrict. See also Bernstein v. United States.
You mean Docker Desktop?
Also iirc all software developed in the USA is subject to those restrictions.
Oh, well, I didn’t knew about that, yeah.
And, in part yes, but these restrictions also apply to docker-cli and moby, although to a lesser extent
What restrictions? The ones on all US software or something else?
No, I mean, for anything beyond personal, non-commercial use, they do impose restrictions.
It also works better sooo
Also, does Docker do rootless containers yet?
It does, but it seems like it’s still a bit of an afterthought. But it’s getting better.
Still tho, podman is fine and I like the project as an alternative to docker.
Docker rootless has been more stable for me than podman
I’ve had the opposite experience. Good to share our data points, though.