In the history of humanity people decide what they want and them formulate whatever justification to make it make sense. The worst is “God said so”.
Thus unilateral support by Evangelicals. Who are evil
Literally, the exact same bullshit, for the same bullshit reasons. If I can hold my own fucking ancestors accountable for their war crimes, you can do the same for Israel.
Israel and the Untied States, the only countries that don’t believe food is a human right
Lebensraum! Everyone here just needs a little living space.
I could use some! I wonder if they time share…
Deus vult!
Colonialism. The most modern examples being Israel-Palestine, China-Taiwan, and Russia-Ukraine.
The west hasn’t culturally processed or accepted a meaningful understanding of it’s own Colonial past, right wing parties particularly reject doing so - calling attempts to do so woke, weak, or unpatriotic.
So of course we’re not going to fully absorbe or react to other countries doing their own versions of it.
China-Taiwan
You misspelled China-Tibet.
Colonialism was occupation for wealth extraction, it relied on exploiting a local population for economic gain. That is different from ethnically cleansing the population and taking their land
“Land is not a resource” says this guy.
The idiots are taking over. Literally
Man I have been waiting a long time for someone else to mention this. Since 2017 I’ve been sitting here looking around wondering why no one else is mentioned NOFX made an entire album about this whole thing…
I hear that song in my head way too much nowadays.
Fat Mike picked a terrible time to retire
China-Taiwan
Which modern example are you referring to, the 17th century mass migration of Han Chinese under the Dutch or the more recent relocation of Republic of China government under the Kuomintang in 1949?
The invasion plans. As your question its self notes, you can colonise somewhere that’s already been colonised. Happens throughout history, as you just noted.
Looks like you made the ml crowd mad with that one. Good job
That’s how you end up on a list
deleted by creator
Look, I support Taiwan’s right to sovereignty as much as anyone else, but I think this one doesn’t fit with your other examples because Taiwan is ethnically Han Chinese and shares a history with mainland China, so this is more like a dispute between cousins. It’s closer to if the British tried to take back over the US, or if the French decided Quebec belongs to them again.
China-Tibet is a better example (which gets forgotten about unfortunately often these days), or even China-Xinjiang. In both cases, the PRC colonized land that didn’t belong to them, and began forced assimilations of the people with different language, culture, ethnicity, and religion. And pretty much imprisoning, re-educating, and enslaving anyone they didn’t exterminate or force into exile.
The native Taiwanese are not Han Chinese. No.
That’s as bad as claiming the Irish are British people, so The Troubles in Northern Ireland shouldn’t have been an issue.
Except it’s not the same at all. The Irish people lived in Ireland before the English lived in England. British rule in Ireland is a classic example of colonialism.
The native Taiwanese are closely related to the Ryukyuan people, and by extension the Japanese (who are likely descended from the Ryukyuans, at least linguistically, not the other way around, although modern Ryukyuan has many elements borrowed from Japanese due to later colonization).
The Taiwanese government though is primarily Mandarin-speaking Han Chinese. If your point is that those aren’t the native Taiwanese, well you’d be right, but that would also imply that the ROC is the colonizer in this situation, which you could argue, but that detracts from your criticism of the PRC aggression against the ROC.
The current conflict in Taiwan is primarily between the PRC and the ROC, with the PRC being the aggressors and the ROC just wanting to maintain their independence. It’s a conflict between two Mandarin-speaking Han Chinese governments with diametrically opposed political philosophies.
I don’t know what kind of relations exist between the Han Taiwanese and the original Taiwanese ethnic groups. I’ll admit I’m ignorant on that subject. But that’s not what the PRC’s aggression against Taiwan is about at all.
It’s just far more complex than the other examples which are blatant cultural imperialism and ethnic supremacism, whereas the PRC-ROC conflict isn’t about language or culture or ethnicity, but about alignment and political philosophy, and to a lesser degree economic systems (because PRC is capitalistic as fuck, it’s just state-controlled capitalism like – surprise! – fascism (also heavily nationalistic)).
Saying the ROC/KMT invasion and brutalizing of the Native Taiwanese was Colonialism (the KMT ran a military dictatorship for over 25 years there) - doesn’t detract from current criticism of the PRC.
You can have multiple Colonialists/Imperialist interests repeat behavior over time in a region. It just means it’s a tough time for the Native Taiwanese.
I didn’t say it detracts from criticism of the PRC, I said your argument that the native Taiwanese aren’t ethnically Han Chinese detracts from your other argument that the PRC is attempting settler-colonialism in Taiwan.
If you actually read anything that I wrote, you’d see that I’m not minimizing the imperialism of the PRC. I’m simply stating that their aggression against Taiwan is not an example of settler-colonialism. It’s still a bad thing, but it’s a different kind of bad thing.
If you want to point out examples of the PRC doing settler-colonialism, those exist. I even mentioned a few. But their aggression against Taiwan is not one (but it is, again, still wrong).
So, something like the war plans the US has to invade Canada? The ones they wargamed out in the 60s?
Do you put that on the same level as China wanting to reunify with Taiwan, and running sorties through their airspace regularly? Does America have a 9-dash line? Do you think they’re both being as serious or long term about what you’ve suggested?
Does the US have a Hong Kong they were surpressing a decade or so ago? Ferguson maybe? It’s not quite the same I don’t think.
No it’s not, but it’s a terrible example of Chinese colonialism on the scale of America or Britain. It hasn’t even happened yet!
If you want that, you should pick Tibet, Xinjiang, or any of the other historically Chinese areas that have been deliberately Hanified in the 20th and 21st century. Now that’s colonialism!
Complete with nice-sounding platitudes about how it’s all for the good of everyone to teach a common language, the old cultures being backwards and primitive and bad for the inhabitants, etc.
I remember all that same bullshit from reading about Australian colonisation. Same bullshit. China just has a more modern version.
For over thirty years it was the stated goal of North Korea to create a pan-national federation (one country, two systems) with South Korea. It was a plan, one they’d often posture aggressively in support of, particularly in the direction of South Korea’s American allies, but I wouldn’t call it a modern example of colonization.
There are also other examples of successful reunifications. North and South Vietnam, East/West Germany. So the point of contention is how (and whether) China goes through with it. Yes, I agree.
They have a demographic shift going on, so the bulk of their fighting aged men will age out between 2035 and 2050…
… they’ve built bridging barges with roads attached to get over Taiwan’s difficult beach heads. So there’s signs of preparation.
The US has done modelling saying the US can’t stop China taking Taiwan, and reunification has been a goal for China for over 50 years now. Seem serious enough? I guess we’ll wait and see what Xi says.
That is not going to happen. I wish people would stop spreading this propaganda. Taiwan and China military threats go back to the 18th century. It got more real since 1949 when Chiang lost the civil war and he and his government fled to Taiwan.
Anyone who understands Chinese politics, knows there is no appetite to go war in either faction. There is no support from the people as the local economy is going through a transition and unemployment is increasing.
Xi and his predecessors needed to sound tough on Taiwan because this is part of Maoist heritage.
Taiwan should go for a name change (to Taiwan rather than the Republic Of CHINA), and get the KMT party also change their name (as it currently translates to The Chinese Nationalists Party).
But they don’t. They’re not making any removals of Chinese naming on their nation, because they feel it would anger China. So they’re far from a bastion of independence and sovereignty.
If the tough talk is all bluster, then they should take further steps towards their own national identity (rather than identifying as China 2).
Ok, but invading a country, or even annexing part of said country does not necessarily mean that the country doing the invading/annexing is doing settler colonialism. They have to explicitly be exterminating or otherwise forcibly removing the native population, with the goal of ethic replacement.
If you want a clear-cut example, beyond Palestine, then Morocco has been settler-colonizing Western Sahara for decades.
I get that’s not as sexy as talking about China/Taiwan relations on Lemmy, but learning about something outside of the usual purview of political discussion on this website certainly wouldn’t hurt.
Optimistic of you to suggest China will treat the native Taiwanese better than the current nation-state of Taiwan. Tribes (such as the Truku) are still forced out of their homes, forbidden traditional hunting rights, and losing aspects of language.
…so hey, maybe YOU learning something wouldn’t hurt too (god I hate it when one person starts talking down to another). That said I’ll look into Morocco.
P.S There’s also such a thing as a Paper Genocide (erasure). Colonialism is not simply defined as “extermination and ethnic replacement of native people” - I think you’ve confused Genocide and Colonialism. Two related but different concepts… Also you can Colonise non-native people, eg. The Maori, who have only occupied NZ since the 1300s, and then later were Colonised by the British.
I’m not suggesting that one way or another, because the PRC does not currently have control over Taiwan. I do not know how they would treat the native Taiwanese population, because no such thing has happened.
You just gave me an example of the current Taiwanese government engaging in ethnic cleansing of the native population, though. Which would seem to me, to undermine the assertion that China’s mere intent to invade Taiwan counts as settler-colonialism, when a much more clear-cut example is happening right now, not under PRC rule.
My point is that words mean things. Settler Colonialism isn’t just “when a country I don’t like does a bad thing”, it’s a very specific process of ethnic replacement, carried out in the US and Canada, South Africa, Palestine, Western Sahara, among other places.
But China having poor relations with Taiwan over a civil war that never ended, just isn’t an example of settler colonialism.
I agree that what the PRC is doing (or threatening to do) to Taiwan isn’t an example of settler-colonialism. It’s aggression and infringement of sovereign borders, but not settler-colonialism.
However, there are other examples of the PRC doing settler colonialism. I pointed this out to the other commenter thinking it would help them strengthen their argument, but they doubled-down because they seem more intent on “being right” than on being correct.
Anyway, the PRC does do settler-colonialism in Tibet, in Xinjiang, in Inner Mongolia, and to a lesser extent (because of previous
assimilation campaignssettler-colonialism) in the Cantonese-speaking regions of the south and to their various ethnic minority groups.“when a country I don’t like does a bad thing” <— no one said that, stop being a dick.
The examples I gave were because they’re current focal points of conjecture and conflicts in the world. But everyone’s gotta arc up because everyone’s got a fucking opinion on China.
I don’t give a shit about China one way or the other. Everyone in these discussions - even when all participants are intelligent - starts pretending that they’re part of some world summit deciding the fate of the galaxy over fucking words and opinions.
None of the discussion is all that important. It’s not going to decide anything.
…and yeah, we’ve already said that you can stack Colonialism so yeah, maybe China would be just as bad as Taiwan. Just a question of how far they go with their desire for “reunification” and what that means. None of this shit is up to us.
The examples I gave were because they’re current focal points of conjecture and conflicts in the world. But everyone’s gotta arc up because everyone’s got a fucking opinion on China.
But notably, not settler colonialism. I can’t think of why you’d bring it up as an example other than to signal your opinions about China. Because as I’ve repeatedly explained, is not doing settler Colonialism to Taiwan.
You’re the one who seems to be bringing your opinion to this discussion, not me.
A far more prominent example would be what Russia has been doing with Crimea for decades.
I don’t even think that’s an especially good example.
Crimea has a predominantly ethnically Russian, and Russian speaking, population. The Russians aren’t replacing Russians with Russians. Russia did annex Crimea in likely contravention of international law, which we might think is bad. But that doesn’t make it settler-Colonialism.
Now, Russia has been adopting out Ukrainian babies in its occupied territories to Russian families, something Putin is wanted by the ICC for, so that would be a much closer example.
But even that, I feel, isn’t as clear cut an example as Palestine or Western Sahara. Russia hasn’t been putting Ukrainians onto reservations or anything like that. Doing so would compromise the national identity of the Russian Federation as a multi-ethnic state. An identity it relies on for domestic legitimacy. Russia just isn’t framing its invasion of Ukraine as a war of ethnic extermination. They’re explicitly framing Ukrainians as a kind of junior partner in a conception of a “greater Russia” that can stand up to The West.
Crimea has a predominantly ethnically Russian, and Russian speaking, population.
… Because of colonization…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Crimea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1783_Russian_annexation_of_Crimea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Russian_annexation_of_Crimea
But regardless of that all, just cause they speak the same language doesn’t mean fuck all? That’s a very goofy and immature and frankly probably racist way to look at racial demographics
Russia has framed the invasion of Ukraine in ethnic terms, saying that the areas invaded are Russian because the Russian language is spoken there. At the same time they’re phasing out the speaking of Ukrainian in occupied areas.
Belarus under went similar policies and there’s a name for it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification
From that page:
In 2020, a set of amendments to the Russian constitution was approved by the State Duma[67] and later the Federation Council.[68] One of the amendments enshrined the Russian nation as the “state-forming nationality” (Russian: государствообразующий народ) and Russian the “language of the state-forming nationality”.[69] The amendment has been met with criticism from Russia’s minorities[70][71] who argue that it goes against the principle that Russia is a multinational state and will only marginalize them further.[72] The amendments were welcomed by Russian nationalists, such as Konstantin Malofeev[73] and Nikolai Starikov.[74] The changes in Constitution were preceded by “Strategy of government’s national policy of Russian Federation”, issued in December 2018, which stated that “all-Russian civic identity is founded on Russia cultural dominant, inherent to all nations of Russian Federation”.[75]
This is part of the Russian World doctrine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_world
The concept of the “Russian world” is linked to Russian neo-imperialism.[8] President Vladimir Putin established the government-funded Russkiy Mir Foundation to foster the idea of the “Russian world” abroad.
Russia is not what it used to be, Dugan got to Vlad, and he’s not as interested in a multicultural Russia right now. He’s a Nationalist Traditionalist, no longer trying to keep up with the west. Now he’s trying to re-write history.
You forgot China-Africa, Magastan-Venezuela…
Professor Dave posted an excellent video about this yesterday: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DvDvhLkb9ms
Yeah that video popped up on my feed while I was playing video games and I kinda just let him ramble in the background, there’s no way we’re calling this excellence? A slideshow of monologuing for an hour and a half?
At the very least he calls out Trump. I expected this to be a video just dunking on center left types considering the Destiny (is Destiny even relevant in current year?) finger pointing. That is an improvement from the typical DSA ‘attack literally anyone that is on the left that’s not us’ strategy.
Well, I mean, if all you got from the video was the bits about Destiny, and not all the stuff about Israel’s genocide and their interference and influence in the US politics Putin could only dream of and support they have from christofascists, then good for you, I guess.
I was mostly just surprised to hear about Destiny - I haven’t heard his name since the Starcraft 2 days.
So, to make things clear, I don’t support Israel. I can think of any number of things to do besides shoving a bunch of Jews in a place filled with people who hate them. Like I won’t pretend to understand the depth of experience that the people who live there or in the areas surrounding Israel have been through, but I can safely say that there were plenty of places that we could have made a home for the Jews in - I don’t give a fuck about the religious importance of the area.
All that being said, my disgust for Israel does nothing to change how I feel about, say, the Houthis. I also don’t particularly view Hamas very positively, genuinely I don’t view any of the countries in that part of the world in a particularly positive light - though I do lament what happened to Iran (Iran used to be a place where women could freely be themselves).
This video, though, makes genuinely dubious points that end up resulting in ‘just trust me’. He makes the claim, I can’t remember how many times, that part of the reason the numbers are low in Gaza is because people are being vaporized. That just… isn’t happening. Bodies might be practically obliterated but the amount of energy required to vaporize people is not the kind of bomb being used in Gaza. He claims using white phosphorous = genocide (which, yes, white phosphorous is a war crime - it’s use ≠ genocide).
To be clear, I do believe Israel’s intent is to commit a genocide. Period.
His claims are just odd, he weaves things that are undeniably true (like Israel setting up places to get food only to bomb them) with things that are easily debunked (vaporization claims, again you’d need to be dropping nukes for that to happen). This all just makes me think “Why aren’t you being more careful about your words?” Like, he made the claim multiple times that there was a concerted effort to silence him online - why would he then exaggerate or engage in hyperbole and give anyone watching a foothold to discredit him?
Idk, I don’t disagree with his message - I just would not call this excellent.
Edit: the U.S. military /Israeli military merger claims he makes are also… very questionable. He makes it seem like they’re fucking Frieza and Evil Buu who are about to put on the Potara earrings and that just… isn’t true.
I’m sorry for my sarcastic reply.
Yk its quite ironic and funny in a macaber way that both zionism and national socialism were the ideas of austrians.
But here the funfact of the day: Former Emperor Otto I. Of Habsburg, crown prince of Austria-Hungary, was member of the EU parliament and until his death one of the biggest supporters for EU federalization and trans-national unity
national socialism
I vote we don’t bring back this term and just call it Nazism.
Mostly me being buthurt because the Nazis weren’t socialist, and there’s a decent chunk of people who don’t know what “national socialism” refers to.
I’m pretty sure the original zionists supported the nazi party and vice versa because both shared the same goal of getting the Jewish people out of Europe. They merely disagreed on the means to do so, which wasn’t apparent from the start
Macabre*… Sorry, I’m a pedantic fucker.
No so am i. Thanks. I just am dyslexic and speak 3 languages and learning 2 more. Non phonetic languages like english are the worst
I wish I could speak more than stupid English. Slowly learning others, but it’s hard, living in rural Canada…
It is a direct loan word from the French, to be fair
Yep. Darn french. Why you got to be so non-phonetic!!
The damn french words invading our language and taking our words’ jobs! 😠
Apologies if I’m missing sarcasm or something, but French is mostly phonetic. As in, the written words tell you how they’re pronounced. apart from some slangs/folk usage the language uses fairly consistent and standardized rules.
He was “only” crown prince, not emperor. His father, Karl I., was the last emperor.
Emperor or our hearts <3
The IDF should also go west, and when they get to the sea they should keep going, no boats, just feed the fishes
This land is mine https://youtu.be/8tIdCsMufIY
=/ so do all the American colonists get sent back to europe?
Not really sure the take away other than I maybe should be ashamed for being born as a human.
The take away was that both manifest destiny and zionism are bad. That doesn’t mean deport europeans from USA, just acknowledge it was fucked up. And maybe stick up for Native Americans when you can.
I literally only ask for this and people get like that guy lol I’m never sure how to get through to them.
The difference is the genocide and ethnic cleansing are happening RIGHT NOW, livestreamed on our phones.
Im not convinced the oppression of native people has ever ended.
so do all the American colonists get sent back to europe?
No. And the Israeli colonists don’t do either.
The solution isn’t forced displacement (of EITHER people), nor is it a two state solution where Palestine is as susceptible to attack as Lebanon, Syria, and whomever else has the misfortune to be near Israel and not completely subservient to it.
The only way to lasting peace is Israelis and Palestinians sharing a democratic and egalitarian nation that doesn’t favor any religion or ethnicity by law.
Getting there is the complicated part, though…
I think the people who need to be convinced are the isreali and palestinian people.
Pretty sure that the vast majority of Palestinians would be fine with not being systematically slaughtered and displaced.
As for the Israelis, I’m thinking we do the same as with the original Apartheid state in South Africa: make them a pariah that nobody in the West wants anything to do with until they realize that having a place in civilized society is more important than committing atrocities.
Right now, they’re getting away with behaving like 1994 Rwanda while being treated like an extra privileged extension of the US.
Until that changes, no peace is possible.
To be fair, the US is being treated like the US instead of like an apartheid state, so…
Not holding my breath on that one.
Pretty sure that the vast majority of Palestinians would be fine with not being systematically slaughtered and displaced.
Well. Simple as, right?
Personally, I find being human shameful, in that we keep getting stuck dominated by the ownership class and unable to organize against them. This won’t be the first time, but the ultra-wealthy are so rich it might be the last.
But that isn’t how I originally took it when I first learned of the atrocities committed by Americans or in the name of the US, past and present.
History is messy everywhere. Human civilization has always been exploitative and violent. What we can hope for is to make strides forward in developing morality and creating societies where life, liberty and civil rights are extended to everyone. The enlightenment and its notion of universal inalienable rights was a big step. We Americans just couldn’t get our wealthy cotton lords to give up their livelihood and wealth. Nor could the French give up their petit bourgeoisie.
Since then, the UN has a Universal Declaration of Human Rights for nations to aspire to, but no nation actually recognizes them all or enforces the ones they got. But liberal societies now know what to work towards if ever they can get it going.
Right now, the US is in a world of shit. We’re watching all the progress since the civil war unravel. But some historians are optimistic about it, noting that we’ve had slide-backs like this before, and when the people responded, it allowed the US to ironclad civil rights a bit more. The US is taking a while, but the arc of history really does bend towards universal liberty.
(SCOTUS is an interesting point of focus, as it’s one of the big direct powers that is unraveling our rights year after year. Now that we understand we can’t just leave it there and hope to fix the US, we’re going to have to do something to overhaul the court. I wonder what that will look like.)
Our current mess even features a conspiracy of the ultra wealthy. It’s hard to decide when it started, because different capitalists were pissed off and swore revenge for different reasons. And then there’s the new order of tech bros and Protestant Evangelical ministers that have devoted themselves to white Christian nationalism. They are just grew up with autocratic ideology and have forsaken all notions of charity or compassion. The Disney/Ford era conspirators would be aghast at what the project has become.
But either we’re going to collectively learn we don’t want to be assholes dominated by an incompetent upper class (and they are incompetent – they’re doing nothing to preserve the social contract) and we’re going to collectively overthrow them and vow to do better, or we’re going to ignore the climate crisis until we collectively run out of water, and war, famine, pestilence and drought take most of us.
If that happens, we might go extinct and then it’s up to some other species to evolve big brains and try again. But Homo Erectus went through a rough patch where there were less than ten-thousand of them for millennia. They’d then get better and colonize the world until they were out-competed by more modern cousins. Also HE lasted two million years, to our 250,000. So this just may be a long term pause before we try to civilize again, and maybe by then we will have become less susceptible to fearmongers.
Removed by mod
No.
Since its foundation in 1948, Israel has been accused of carrying out genocide against Palestinians during the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. A wide consensus of scholars have concluded that Israel’s actions during the Gaza war since 2023 constitute genocide, although debate continues over whether Israel’s treatment of Palestinians since the Nakba—prior to 2023—also constitutes genocide, and whether such actions are continuous or limited to specific periods or events. This treatment has also been characterised as “slow-motion genocide”,[2][3] as well as a corollary or expression of settler colonialism and indigenous land theft.[4][5][6] Those who believe Israel’s actions constitute genocide point to the entrenched anti-Palestinian racism, anti-Arab racism, Islamophobia and genocidal rhetoric in Israeli society, and point to events such as the Nakba, the Sabra and Shatila massacre, the blockade of the Gaza Strip, the 2014 Gaza War, and the 2023–present Gaza war as particularly pertinent genocidal episodes.[7][8] International law and genocide scholars have accused Israeli officials of using dehumanising language.[9][10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_genocide_allegations
The Gaza genocide is the ongoing,[19] intentional, and systematic destruction of the Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip carried out by Israel during the Gaza war. It encompasses mass killings, the targeted killing of children (who account for 30% of those killed),[20][21][22] deliberate starvation, infliction of serious bodily and mental harm, and prevention of births. Other acts include blockading, destroying civilian infrastructure, destroying healthcare facilities, killing healthcare workers and aid-seekers, causing mass forced displacement, committing sexual violence, and destroying educational, religious, and cultural sites.[23] The genocide has been recognised by a United Nations special committee[24] and commission of inquiry,[23] the International Association of Genocide Scholars,[25][26] multiple human rights groups,[c] state governments, numerous genocide studies and international law scholars,[32][33] and other experts.[34]
If it’s not genocide, surely all Zionists will also support the Palestinian right of return.
That’s just the official Hasbara, not the truth.
In reality it’s a genocidal colonial ethnostate and it has been since 1948.
The Genocide part since long before that.
Tell that to the settlers… Thank you for reminding me why I tagged you
Why has my comment been removed? I simply posted a quote from a Wikipedia article about the different types of Zionism. The meme is obviously oversimplification.
Cause you sounded like someone arguing that Nazis were just a political party.
I feel like this is unintentionally excusing what Israel is doing.
It’s only excusing it if you support manifest destiny.
I honestly don’t see how that could be the case. “X is just as bad as Y!” only excuses X if Y is already excusable. Are you saying that manifest destiny was somehow defensible as a moral act?
A lot of people do think manifest destiny is excusable. Now they can think Israel’s actions are excusable, too.
I’m pretty confident that the people who thought that already believed that Israel’s actions were excusable.
I don’t agree that this is excusing Israel’s actions, and I am stepping way outside of my comfort zone even commenting on this thread. I’m not looking to get involved in an argument or anything else. I just wanted to comment that I personally know several people who believe what is happening in Israel is inexcusable, awful, and are pro-palestinian. But those same people have a romantisized notion of manifest destiny. It happened before they were born, they associate it with westerns, the the pioneer lifestyle, people attempting to carve a life for themselves, et cetera. It has been removed from the slaughter of the native population by years of propaganda, and there is a cognitive disassociate between the move of ordinary folks out west to seek a better life for themselves, and the genocide of native American peoples.
That said, if anything, I think this comic can help those people to realize that manifest destiny was bad, rather than making Israel’s action excusable. It’s not that they are okay with what happened to native Americans and not okay with what’s happening to Palestinians, it’s that because of the environment in which they grew up, because they have been fed a particular narrative, they have yet to have had their eyes opened to what the reality of what happened was actually like.
And yet its still an accurate description of how grand narratives about destiny and rightful ownership are used to justify the brutal killings of others.
Do not confuse descriptivism for prescriptivism.
