Micromot

Tell that to the settlers… Thank you for reminding me why I tagged you

And that’s why I think people are able to convinced by discussion. It might take some time and it might be difficult but they are still human at the core. I don’t think people like this should get a platform but it is necessary to push against the spread of hatred and the deeply ingrained propaganda. It is difficult but not impossible.

Religion is a similar but different issue which is very difficult to discuss about as it is often deeply engrained in people’s minds.

Rich people is kinda the opposite of what I was talking about. They often actively profit from trump or are not affected in the slightest. It is not the group we should be focused on convincing as they aren’t really workers.

People aren’t bigots out of nowhere. They have real worries but their anger is misguided by the ultrawealthy so they don’t lose their power.

The voters shouldn’t be the enemy. They are mostly victims of propaganda. The system needs this propaganda so few people can continue to profit. This applies to all of the categories above except if your relatives are part of the ultrawealthy.

I thinks it’s also due to a lot of US exceptionalism propaganda. The US was always depicted as the savior or protector of the world. This has been ongoing for a long time, whicg is why the propaganda is soo deeply engrained in people’s minds and it is a lot work to actually get through to people affected by it.

It’s similar in Germany and a lot of the western world. Foreign countries are seen as uncivilized and people are only seen as humans if they can provide value to the nation. Propaganda is difficult to work against. Some people are easier to reach though and that shows that it is not impossible to reach people.

Not protect but analyze and understand. Then you can actually fight the issues

I understand. I don’t think we as leftists should be glorifying individual people. It leads to a lot of problems and can really destroy a movement.

This works both ways. I don’t think we should glorify or villify individual people because they are mostly a product of their environment. I thinm leftists should disagree with great-man-theory

Also I love that we have a proper discussion about this topic and that you actually engaged with my arguments.

That is correct.

For me the motto means that we shouldn’t disconnect gender problems and others from the class war but that they should be fought as one issue. They are deeply connected after all

I know exactly these issues myself. It’s the same in Germany with AFD voters.

Why do you think your family believes that way? Do you think they were born that way/ born evil?

No, I think that the people commiting these crimes should lose their position of power.

The unionization should continue though even though it was started by a criminal.

The crimes should be spoken about and addressed properly.

But why do you think they are xenophobic or racist?

Doesn’t that stem from nationalist and capitalist propaganda.

The notion that one state is better that the others exists everywhere and reinforces the nationalism very heavily. This is just the basic competitiveness of capitalism, that has its roots everywhere.

All these issues can be attributed to the capitalist nature of the state

I think the union work actually helped with gender issue as equal pay and better pay helps a lot with emancipation.

It is still just as problematic, if he personally is an abuser

Exactly, their decisions might be bad/invalid but their problems are real

I don’t know Chavez or Platner right now, sorry.

I know what you are talking about, I hate that too. Actual marxist theory attributes gender and equality to the class issue as well, which is why gender and equality are part of the class war. They should be viewed as one issue and not seperately. There won’t be gender equality before there is class equality.

Edit: looked up Chavez. I do agree with his tactics. The owning class has nothing without workers.

I think supporting Platner is a positive sign as it shows that the root cause is still visible.

Edit 2: I was not aware of these two people and their crimes. I only support their movements but not their personal actions. I should’ve researched them more.

Maybe not hanging out but at least trying to understand the reasons that led to the vote. I myself don’t have friends that voted AFD but I think they have a lot of the same problems that I do. Their anger is just very misguided.

That’s not what the motto means though. Women’s rights and Minority rights are restricted because of capitalism. They have a purpose in the capitalistic world. The class war fights these issues as well. At least in the proper marxist theory.

I don’t think you are aware of how desperate a lot of people were. I know it’s easy to villainize people who want to take away the rights of people you love and yourself. My friends and me would be affected by his policy too if we lived in the US. But the people who voted for trump are still human and not evil in person. They have their own reasoning and problems, they were just convinced of the wrong target. They probably have a lot of the same problems with capitalism that a lot of people have. They just aren’t targeting capitalism but some minority or foreigners in general.

That is not how we will get past capitalism. We need to pick up people where they are. You don’t need to agree but you need to take problems and worries seriously to actually convince someone. Antagonizing only reinforces current opinions.

I don’t fully agree. Of course it’s problematic that people voted for trump, that’s out of the question. But the question should rather be: What circumstances led to someone voting for trump?

People are actually struggling a lot and voting for the person advertising a solution can seem very attractive if you desperately need an improvement.

In the end, voting doesn’t fix the underlying system and can only achieve marginal improvements. All Parties are only managing the same capitalistic state and not changing the whole system.

Ostracizing people based on their vote is not a proper solution and will not lead to people voting for someone different. People are more likely to reinforce their existing beliefs if met with heavy resistance.

Also the party war is distracting from the actual class war.

Maybe I took the meme too seriously but I think it’s important to consider.

No War But Class War!

Edit: Maybe don’t hang out with them, but analyze the reasons that made them vote in the way they did. People who voted for trump probably have the same problems with capitalism that you do but their anger is misguided by populism and capitalist propaganda.

From what I read on their profile, they were complaining about posts being deleted by users while also deleting a lot of posts themselves.

And the sessionrestore