• Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    11 hours ago

    There are two kinds of ways to end up as a person at what one thinks are the Left side of politics:

    • You start by “what are my personal principles” and build up from that up to “what kind of policies follow and advance my principles” and then support political forces that actually ACT thus rather than just talk about it. As your principles include something around “improving my own personal upsides shouln’t come on the backs of hurting or even harming others” you end up left of center (I.e. pro-social rather than merely pro-self)
    • You start supporting a political force for social reasons - maybe because of friends or family or because you were compelled to support a “side” because you detest what the other aide does. Having a tribalist relationship with that political force, by default and never actually intellectually analysing with a skeptical eye their words and actions, you trust them, think their motivations are good and look up to their leaders (as a tribalist you see it all as “me” and “mine” rather than merely some people you support as long as they act in a way that matches your principles). They tell you they’re leftwing, so you think you’re leftwing. Note that their actions need not be according to pro-social principles - in this kind of relationship with a political force the link is not a rational analysis of what they do and conclusion that their actions align with your personal principles, it’s an emotional tribalist feeling of belonging, so even ifthey act in antisocial ways a pro-social individual will deny it or rationalize it away (say: “lower taxes for the rich will actually make society wealthier because it trickles down” or “China’s occupation of Tibet freed Tibetans of a backwards society”)

    Tankies are invariably type 2.

    So are most Liberals who think they’re Progressive.

    In fact in my experience living in a couple of countries in Europe people who always vote for the same party or at most rwfuse to vote for one or two elections are almost always type 2.

    IMHO unthinking tribalism and the ease of propagandising such people into thinking they’re “good people doing the right thing” de facto making them relentless warriors for those enacting antisocial policies, is the single biggest problem of the leftwing in modern day democratic countries.

  • James R Kirk@startrek.website
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    1 day ago

    I always laugh when people talk about the CIA as if it is a single person, and they try to establish a sense of character by mentioning things it did in the 50s, as if any of the people involved back the. were still involved today.

    • thethrilloftime69@feddit.online
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      1 day ago

      Yeah but the people from the 50s trained everyone who came after them. I’m actually reading a book about the Dulles brothers (who basically set CIA philosophy, ethos and hiring practices) and there’s no way that the CIA isn’t still using a lot of the same practices and setting the same goals.

      • James R Kirk@startrek.website
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        1 day ago

        Yep haha exactly like that, excellent satire, you absolutely nailed the tone of someone trying to distract from actual effective policy changes using conspiratorial language.

        • thethrilloftime69@feddit.online
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          24 hours ago

          Lol good one bro you sound just like someone who just uses a bunch of words without actually understanding what they mean. It’s not like you nor the OP mentioned anything about policy. And you definitely got a legitimate counterpoint about the character of the CIA that is relevant to understanding how the world works today. It’s easy to dismiss claims about the CIA if you’ve never actually read anything about how they’ve operated for decades.

          If you are interested in understanding why people make those claims about the CIA, I will suggest reading “The Brothers” by Stephen Kinzer or “The Jakarta Method” by Vincent Bevins. It’s pretty sobering. I also highly recommend the podcast series “Blowback” particularly season 2. You know since I know it’s important to someone like yourself to be educated on the stuff you talk about.

          • James R Kirk@startrek.website
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            21 hours ago

            Sorry didn’t realize you were a true believer™ let’s try to remember we have the same goals even though it’s for different reasons!

            • 2hundredpancakes@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              17 hours ago

              I don’t know why you’re working so hard to defend the same agency that cooked up operation paperclip and mkultra. Like those three letter agencies didn’t do even more bonkers shit during the cold war in the name of defending capitalism. Like they haven’t declassified documents admitting to it. But uh, go off or whatever.

  • IAmYouButYouDontKnowYet@reddthat.com
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    1 day ago

    The nation is manipulated and led by the CIA. All sides - including center - suck their dick and fund them while doing so.

    We are free range slaves with ill-gotten privileges that allow us shitty forms of escapism that give us an illusion of choice and freedom, usually driven by marketing different emotions to its victims.

    We are not allowed understanding of reality, we are only allowed to trade loyalty to them for the free-range “freedom”, and if that “deal” is not accepted one gets treated like “we” treat the middle east. Even if they are a good kind person. …That’s why homelessness never goes away. It’s systematic genocide.

    /S …right?

    • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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      1 day ago

      Ah, yes, everything that happens is the CIA.

      If you disagree, you’re a CIA plant.

    • socsa@piefed.social
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      1 day ago

      I mean of you take this view then no human has agency and we might as well just give ourselves over to powers we cannot possibly control.

      Which is why the politics of human society have not changed for thousands of years.

      • Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 day ago

        sigh

        so some people are deemed to be “worth more” in most human societies throughout history. this allows these individuals to control a greater portion of wealth and/or power than is reasonable. the difference between these people is commonly called “class”.

        theres lots of great literature about this phenomenon that is totally available for free online.

    • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      suck their dick

      Ooh I get to do a tankie now. Mods ban this person for homophobia (even though sucking dick is not specific to homosexual behavior, and implying otherwise is bigoted itself, but that doesn’t matter to me because thinking about the implications of what you say is westoid propaganda).