Shouldn’t you be discussing this on wikipedia?Apparently their editors don’t think that there is enough credible evidence of a genocide as well, hence the name change.
The name changed because it doesn’t meet the statutory definition of the law. This has zero to do with it being a genocide outside of one narrow definition. This is the same logic that Maga uses to deny Trump is a rapist
People also argue if what is happening in Palestine is a genocide. There are many people who don’t believe what happened to the Native Americans is an ongoing genocide or what the US has done by locking up and destroying minority families (also a genocide). Just because they aren’t actively slaughtering them doesn’t suddenly make it not a genocide.
The name changed because it doesn’t meet the statutory definition of the law. This has zero to do with it being a genocide outside of one narrow definition
not the impression what I got. See the discussion about it here, it seems the main issue was a lack of sources calling it the “uyghur genocide”.
mainly the discussion was kicked off because it revealed wikipedia’s western bias:
Uyghur genocide → Uyghur genocide accusation – In line with Palestinian genocide accusation and doesn’t imply it’s a settled fact like the current title does, but also still in line with the WP:COMMONNAME arguments (which I don’t agree with, but this is a compromise) since it includes the supposed common name. The discrepancy between the current titles of this page and Palestinian genocide accusation implies a hypocrisy on the part of Wikipedia.
So clearly they’re arguing about whether it’s a “settled fact” or not. The discussion there is about a lack of scholarly articles calling it “genocide” and I don’t see anyone arguing it on the basis of it not meeting any sort of legal criteria.
Also you can stop posting the same material over and over again, I promise you I have seen at least the source material, back when I made my deep dive and found it lacking. If there’s anything new on this issue within the last 3 years please do let me know. Otherwise it seems like everybody dropped it as the so-called “human rights violations” peetered out due to lack of us-backed salafi terrorism.
I said it was settled fact. That is not up for debate with me, but you are of course welcome to continue to deny the genocide like you have been.
I am not just posting for you, I am very aware you don’t consider any sources I use valid. This is a common tactic of tankies. No surprise there.
You are of course wrong, but that is okay. You are primarily driven by ideology rather than logic. This allows you to discredit everything that disagrees with your view as western propaganda which really isn’t wrong as everything is technically propaganda. The devil is in sussing out what is true and what is not by understanding the intent and circumstances.
I don’t believe China is slaughtering Uyghur, although they have definitely killed more than just what normal police action would cause. What they are doing is a slow burn genocide similar to what the US has been doing for years. A polite genocide if you will.
I don’t really have a dog in this fight because I am not pro China or pro USA. I have been involved with Amnesty International and I have assisted in getting political prisoners released from both countries. I truly view both nations as utterly corrupt partners in making billionaires richer. Why any self respecting leftist would carry water for them is beyond me.
I’m not gonna go do a deepdive again. It is such a chore to even find falsifiable claims buried in the footnotes why are they not front and center? I made such a deep dive back in 2023 found it lacking. If there is new material from then please do share it. At the moment it just looks like there is no more genocide, if there ever was one.
I am not just posting for you, I am very aware you don’t consider any sources I use valid. This is a common tactic of tankies. No surprise there.
Well the first link leans on Zenz so I’m just gonna throw it out based on what I already know about him and his “reports”. The second one links the CIA directly so I’m not gonna bother with it either. Granted it’s not material to the article but it shows who is ultimately behind this article and it’s the biggest human rights violator on the planet. The third[1] I actually then looked at, now this really is the first thread I pulled and since I actually have to study (and type this comment twice because I accidently deleted the entirety of it) the only thread. Looking at the ToC there is section about “Destruction of Uyghur religious and cultural property” which seems like a good place to start looking for falsifiable claims. It alleges “razing of mosques” citing a Uyghur Human Rights Project report[2] so lets go there. The first mosque in the “Demolished mosques” section talks about the Keriya Id Kah Mosque. There is a thing about it’s gatehouse getting demolished:
Pictures of the mosque gatehouse appear as recently as March 2018. The demolition of the
gatehouse appears to have taken place on the 19th or 20th of the month, according to analysis
from Bellingcat. The prayer hall remains standing.
but earlier it was said that
In 1997 towards the north gate of the mosque a three story 227 square meter gatehouse was built in the style from the times of Sultan Satuq Bughra Khan using 80,000 RMB from the Xinjiang Ministry of Cultural and Religious Affairs along with 500,000 RMB collected from the people of Keriya.
so it’s really not ancient history that got demolished here. I don’t exactly know why, but there are plenty of reasons for demolishing such a structure. Later there is this quote saying
The Imams and the preachers of the mosque faced the same fate as the mosque.
so they are alleging the mosque got razed after all?? It’s just bonkers how hard it is to pin down an actual claim here. The mosque certainly seems to still be standing as a quick google to the coordinates shown in the picture will tell you. What’s more is that these areas can be travelled by tourists, got travelled. Of course the citations of that “report” link to the CIA as well, so I don’t know why I bothered. Why is there no organic resistance or reporting going on? Why does it all keep tying into the CIA?? What’s more, I spent an hour looking at the wrong mosque, I confused the one in kashgar with the on in keriya. Because the information is completely scattered all over, self-contradictory and I have no clue whether at any given point the piece I’m reading is alleging all-out genocide, cultural genocide, human rights abuses or what.
Did you ever bother to verify what these sources are talking about? Because this was the common theme back when I looked into it, it somehow always looped back to the CIA.
You are of course wrong, but that is okay. You are primarily driven by ideology rather than logic.
See these smug self-satisfied zingers is the reason why I don’t believe you care about the people of xinjiang one iota. It’s just about feeling superior to the tankies and non-westerners. You’re also wrong about me being “driven by ideology” as the breaking down xinjiang reporting is what got me into marxism and on the “tankie” side of things, not the other way around. I can’t explain just how uncomfortable it was to break with all the instutions and media that gave a feeling of safety. That sinking feeling the more I looked into exactly the kind of sources you posted. I previously thought that I got a clear view of the goings on in the world by consuming western media and having to break with all of it (really all of it, “Der Spiegel”, BBC, whatever yank news outlets I read before, they all were repeating it in lockstep) had me reeling. That feeling of having your worldview turned upside up is freeing but deeply uncomfortable. Of course whatever doubts I still had were put to rest with the reporting on the gaza genocide after Operation Al-Aqsa flood and the past years really solidified just how much of a puppet theatre it all is.
The devil is in sussing out what is true and what is not by understanding the intent and circumstances.
it really is, but I have a feeling you actually didn’t look at the material that closely.
I truly view both nations as utterly corrupt partners in making billionaires richer.
Since hitting a peak of 1,185 in 2021, Hurun said the number of dollar billionaires had been reduced to 753, with the 36 per cent decline exceeding a 10 per cent fall in the renminbi’s value against the dollar over the same period.[3]
Deep dives aside you have done nothing to discredit any sources I provided besides vague assurance you know it is all fake. Like you have uncovered a giant conspiracy instead of the more mundane reality of human rights violations which is typical in every country on the planet.
Your kill the messenger approach is just pathetic. Here is the thing, the messenger can be untrustworthy but still tell the truth. This also ties into a bigger picture of hypocrisy. Simply put a hypocrite isn’t necessarily wrong just because they don’t practice what they preach. This is an advance concept you are probably not ready for.
You spend so much time on single mosque story it is kind of mind-boggling. China is known for shutting down and altering a larger number of mosques. This isn’t up for debate and honestly you are coming off as someone who is delusional to ignore this fact.
CIA you say, once again it is far more mundane. Most of the evidence coming out of China is gathered by human rights organizations. I find it funny you think the CIA is running around planting all this evidence to make China look bad. Not that the CIA couldn’t do it, but they really are busy running around murdering people and securing more wealth for the oligarchy.
I keep giving you zingers because you deserve them. You act like a desperate campist trying to find evidence to support your conspirator views. Not that conspiracies aren’t a thing, they definitely are. It is just you haven’t found one in this particular area. This is an issue I find myself falling into because of the vast conspiracies I am aware of. Everything begins to look like a conspiracy even when it isn’t.
I am not wrong about you being driven by ideology. I find it amazing you would deny this while being clearly driven by an ideology. You even admit your indoctrination into your cult of like minded genocide deniers. Why a leftist would look up to China or Russia is beyond me and shows a complete lack of discernment. My respect level instantly drops when I realize someone is a simp.
There is this whole world of propaganda you ignore and that is eastern propaganda. China regularly lies and Russia quite literally never tells the truth. You think the whole world is one sided, but that is because you are not exposed to constant propaganda from the other side. You are not wrong though about the theater. There is definitely a show western propaganda has put on and a lot of it is demonstratebly wrong.
Back to your denial of being driven by ideology. The first part of recognizing bias is looking at yourself. You have indicated your bias to me multiple times now. Here is how bad it is. You went looking for evidence China has its billionaires under control and you found some state propaganda from several years ago that supports your position. Here is the problem, China has produced the most billionaires for the third year in a row.
I can see you have a long journey ahead deprogramming yourself if you care to. Perhaps you will be happy lapping up eastern propaganda as you used to lap up western. To each his own.
Deep dives aside you have done nothing to discredit any sources I provided besides vague assurance you know it is all fake.
Aside from the thing I’ve done I’ve done nothing. Got it.
Your kill the messenger approach is just pathetic. Here is the thing, the messenger can be untrustworthy but still tell the truth.
I don’t think you know what that phrase means. I don’t dislike the messenger because of the message. I distrust the message because of the messenger, which is perfectly valid.
If the messenger is untrustworthy then why should I trust them?? Maybe they’re telling the truth, but they have to go the extra mile to make me trust them. Also why are they the only one? Why is almost every one of the muslim majority nations disbelieving the CIA when it comes to that genocide, but they all believe that there is a genocide in Palestine? Well, all of them except Uyghur advocacy groups, who support pissrael[1] apparently.
My distrust of the messenger comes from how they have acted throughout history. But even if we ignore that the CIA never once, afaik in it’s entire history, was with the side fighting for human rights, but always sided with the oppressors, then there still is the issue that the CIA is not an impartial party in this. They are funding the sufi terrorists. That terrorist network that operated in Xinjiang grew out of the US supported mujaheddin, which grew into the US supported al-qaeda and spread like a malignant tumor all over WACA since. They are deeply embedded in muslim terrorist networks, starting back in the 70s. Their assets are getting imprisoned, their effort getting thwarted, this is like taking whatever Russia is saying about what’s happening in east Ukraine at face value. They have a vested interest in making up or puffing up stories of abuse which is why whatever they saying should be faced with even more intense scrutiny to sort the wheat from the chaff.
You spend so much time on single mosque story it is kind of mind-boggling.
That’s what fact-checking is like, and why the gish-gallopping and constant goalshifting is so effective. The devil is in the details as they say. Also I’m never 100% sure what the claim is, all-out genocide, “cultural” genocide, severe human rights violations? Are the mosques razed, altered, renovated what’s the actual position? It’s never really clear.
China is known for shutting down and altering a larger number of mosques.
see that’s what I mean, the paper that I was talking about, the one you linked, asserted that China is “razing […] mosques”, citing a paper where that mosque was under the section “demolished mosques”, but now we’re downgrading to “shutting down and altering”? This blase approach to details is mindboggling when we’re talking about allegations of genocide by an adversarial nation. Imagine if people were talking about pissrael demolishing mosques but it just turns out they are giving them a new facade with hebrew lettering instead of arabic. It would instantly disqualify them (correctly imo) but here we just play fast and loose with the details. Razing centuries old mosques and altering the facade of newly built mosques is all the same after all…
This isn’t up for debate and honestly you are coming off as someone who is delusional to ignore this fact.
I’ll decide what I believe and what I consider to be up for debate myself. I get that you just believe the western media because you’re that far gone in your ideology, but I think we need to look at falsifiable claims and prove them instead of whatever this is. Also your claim that this is a settled debate is not true at all. Basically no one outside of the western world believes this is happening.
Honestly after seeing pictures used to insinuate a mosque has been razed only to find out that it’s actually very much still standing I don’t believe anything coming out of… cursory glance at the sources again the CIA? this is just goofy now come on
Also you know how I got the mosque wrong and spend so much time confusedly looking at the Kashgar Id Kah mosque? Well the most I could find that was alleged was the removal of a plaque at the gate. Well:
The imam said that after repair work was carried out, the plaque was repositioned on an outer wall of the main prayer hall inside the building.
The plaque, which is 2.7 meters long and 1.3 meters wide, was made and hung over the entrance to the mosque in 1982, but the characters and designs on it faded and were damaged due to exposure to the sun and wind.
The imam added: “In 2017, the plaque was repaired together with other facilities at the mosque. It was moved to its current position and a large canopy was put up to prevent the plaque being exposed to the weather. This work is actually very easy to verify.”
I leave it to you to fact-check it if you want. So I don’t expect much from that ft’s articles allegations as well. Also I’ve been very open about the fact that I would only consider post-2023 major happenings as I consider anything before that pretty much settled and don’t have the time to revisit it all.
Most of the evidence coming out of China is gathered by human rights organizations.
backed and financed by the CIA. Do you think that organisations like radio free asia operate independently from the CIA? It’s just a front for the CIA.
You even admit your indoctrination into your cult of like minded genocide deniers. Why a leftist would look up to China or Russia is beyond me and shows a complete lack of discernment.
My self-indoctrination by looking at the allegations in details and coming to my own conclusions? As if you haven’t been indoctrinated to deny the genocide of the white farmers in South Africa (a position I would agree with, there is no white genocide in SA). Also your assertion that I “look up to China or Russia” is again you just thinking you know what’s going when you clearly don’t and are wrong. I don’t “look up” to any nation. But I believe that some nations are way more evil than others.
I find it funny you think the CIA is running around planting all this evidence to make China look bad
What evidence ? No, what I believe is that they have a bunch of uyghur people who, for various reasons, chose the US over the PRC. Now, they know that the financial support they receive in the countries they live in is contingent on them being useful to the propaganda effort else they get dropped. See e.g. Guan Heng[2]. So they take a story like the Keriye Id Kah mosque’s gatehouse getting demolished and puff it up as if the entire mosque was destroyed. This is already a known phenomenon see e.g. Yeonmi Park for a particularly egregious example.
I can see you have a long journey ahead deprogramming yourself if you care to.
Yeah same to you, yours is somewhat longer though
Perhaps you will be happy lapping up eastern propaganda as you used to lap up western.
the gall to think that I am just “lapping up propaganda” instead of fact-checking, when it was fact-checking that got me where I am is just utter projection. This will also likely be my last message in this chain. I think I’ve shown what I intended to show, whether you’re willing to actually look or just dismiss it all with a sneer is of course up to you.
Protip: if you are going to deny a genocide try harder
Shouldn’t you be discussing this on wikipedia?Apparently their editors don’t think that there is enough credible evidence of a genocide as well, hence the name change.
Why!? We already know it is a genocide.
The name changed because it doesn’t meet the statutory definition of the law. This has zero to do with it being a genocide outside of one narrow definition. This is the same logic that Maga uses to deny Trump is a rapist
People also argue if what is happening in Palestine is a genocide. There are many people who don’t believe what happened to the Native Americans is an ongoing genocide or what the US has done by locking up and destroying minority families (also a genocide). Just because they aren’t actively slaughtering them doesn’t suddenly make it not a genocide.
https://www.genocidewatch.com/what-is-genocide
Shouldn’t you go somewhere else to deny this genocide, since that is your part? A genocide denier through and through.
not the impression what I got. See the discussion about it here, it seems the main issue was a lack of sources calling it the “uyghur genocide”.
mainly the discussion was kicked off because it revealed wikipedia’s western bias:
So clearly they’re arguing about whether it’s a “settled fact” or not. The discussion there is about a lack of scholarly articles calling it “genocide” and I don’t see anyone arguing it on the basis of it not meeting any sort of legal criteria.
Also you can stop posting the same material over and over again, I promise you I have seen at least the source material, back when I made my deep dive and found it lacking. If there’s anything new on this issue within the last 3 years please do let me know. Otherwise it seems like everybody dropped it as the so-called “human rights violations” peetered out due to lack of us-backed salafi terrorism.
Thanks for deep diving into the reason why. Although there are many scholarly articles calling it a genocide
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2021.2001556#abstract
https://www.humanrightsresearch.org/post/persecution-of-uyghurs-in-xinjiang-torture-crimes-against-humanity-and-genocide
https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/November_2021_Uyghur_Report.pdf
https://www.mdpi.com/2075-471X/9/1/1
https://newlinesinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/Chinas-Breaches-of-the-GC3.pdf
https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1834&context=gsp
I said it was settled fact. That is not up for debate with me, but you are of course welcome to continue to deny the genocide like you have been.
I am not just posting for you, I am very aware you don’t consider any sources I use valid. This is a common tactic of tankies. No surprise there.
You are of course wrong, but that is okay. You are primarily driven by ideology rather than logic. This allows you to discredit everything that disagrees with your view as western propaganda which really isn’t wrong as everything is technically propaganda. The devil is in sussing out what is true and what is not by understanding the intent and circumstances.
I don’t believe China is slaughtering Uyghur, although they have definitely killed more than just what normal police action would cause. What they are doing is a slow burn genocide similar to what the US has been doing for years. A polite genocide if you will.
I don’t really have a dog in this fight because I am not pro China or pro USA. I have been involved with Amnesty International and I have assisted in getting political prisoners released from both countries. I truly view both nations as utterly corrupt partners in making billionaires richer. Why any self respecting leftist would carry water for them is beyond me.
I’m not gonna go do a deepdive again. It is such a chore to even find falsifiable claims buried in the footnotes why are they not front and center? I made such a deep dive back in 2023 found it lacking. If there is new material from then please do share it. At the moment it just looks like there is no more genocide, if there ever was one.
Well the first link leans on Zenz so I’m just gonna throw it out based on what I already know about him and his “reports”. The second one links the CIA directly so I’m not gonna bother with it either. Granted it’s not material to the article but it shows who is ultimately behind this article and it’s the biggest human rights violator on the planet. The third[1] I actually then looked at, now this really is the first thread I pulled and since I actually have to study (and type this comment twice because I accidently deleted the entirety of it) the only thread. Looking at the ToC there is section about “Destruction of Uyghur religious and cultural property” which seems like a good place to start looking for falsifiable claims. It alleges “razing of mosques” citing a Uyghur Human Rights Project report[2] so lets go there. The first mosque in the “Demolished mosques” section talks about the Keriya Id Kah Mosque. There is a thing about it’s gatehouse getting demolished:
but earlier it was said that
so it’s really not ancient history that got demolished here. I don’t exactly know why, but there are plenty of reasons for demolishing such a structure. Later there is this quote saying
so they are alleging the mosque got razed after all?? It’s just bonkers how hard it is to pin down an actual claim here. The mosque certainly seems to still be standing as a quick google to the coordinates shown in the picture will tell you. What’s more is that these areas can be travelled by tourists, got travelled. Of course the citations of that “report” link to the CIA as well, so I don’t know why I bothered. Why is there no organic resistance or reporting going on? Why does it all keep tying into the CIA?? What’s more, I spent an hour looking at the wrong mosque, I confused the one in kashgar with the on in keriya. Because the information is completely scattered all over, self-contradictory and I have no clue whether at any given point the piece I’m reading is alleging all-out genocide, cultural genocide, human rights abuses or what.
Did you ever bother to verify what these sources are talking about? Because this was the common theme back when I looked into it, it somehow always looped back to the CIA.
See these smug self-satisfied zingers is the reason why I don’t believe you care about the people of xinjiang one iota. It’s just about feeling superior to the tankies and non-westerners. You’re also wrong about me being “driven by ideology” as the breaking down xinjiang reporting is what got me into marxism and on the “tankie” side of things, not the other way around. I can’t explain just how uncomfortable it was to break with all the instutions and media that gave a feeling of safety. That sinking feeling the more I looked into exactly the kind of sources you posted. I previously thought that I got a clear view of the goings on in the world by consuming western media and having to break with all of it (really all of it, “Der Spiegel”, BBC, whatever yank news outlets I read before, they all were repeating it in lockstep) had me reeling. That feeling of having your worldview turned upside up is freeing but deeply uncomfortable. Of course whatever doubts I still had were put to rest with the reporting on the gaza genocide after Operation Al-Aqsa flood and the past years really solidified just how much of a puppet theatre it all is.
it really is, but I have a feeling you actually didn’t look at the material that closely.
well good news on that front, China is cleaning up with it’s billionaires https://hexbear.net/post/2802029
https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/November_2021_Uyghur_Report.pdf ↩︎
https://docs.uhrp.org/pdf/UHRP_report_Demolishing_Faith.pdf ↩︎
https://archive.is/gNdbC#selection-2157.0-2157.231 ↩︎
Deep dives aside you have done nothing to discredit any sources I provided besides vague assurance you know it is all fake. Like you have uncovered a giant conspiracy instead of the more mundane reality of human rights violations which is typical in every country on the planet.
Your kill the messenger approach is just pathetic. Here is the thing, the messenger can be untrustworthy but still tell the truth. This also ties into a bigger picture of hypocrisy. Simply put a hypocrite isn’t necessarily wrong just because they don’t practice what they preach. This is an advance concept you are probably not ready for.
You spend so much time on single mosque story it is kind of mind-boggling. China is known for shutting down and altering a larger number of mosques. This isn’t up for debate and honestly you are coming off as someone who is delusional to ignore this fact.
https://ig.ft.com/china-mosques/
CIA you say, once again it is far more mundane. Most of the evidence coming out of China is gathered by human rights organizations. I find it funny you think the CIA is running around planting all this evidence to make China look bad. Not that the CIA couldn’t do it, but they really are busy running around murdering people and securing more wealth for the oligarchy.
I keep giving you zingers because you deserve them. You act like a desperate campist trying to find evidence to support your conspirator views. Not that conspiracies aren’t a thing, they definitely are. It is just you haven’t found one in this particular area. This is an issue I find myself falling into because of the vast conspiracies I am aware of. Everything begins to look like a conspiracy even when it isn’t.
I am not wrong about you being driven by ideology. I find it amazing you would deny this while being clearly driven by an ideology. You even admit your indoctrination into your cult of like minded genocide deniers. Why a leftist would look up to China or Russia is beyond me and shows a complete lack of discernment. My respect level instantly drops when I realize someone is a simp.
There is this whole world of propaganda you ignore and that is eastern propaganda. China regularly lies and Russia quite literally never tells the truth. You think the whole world is one sided, but that is because you are not exposed to constant propaganda from the other side. You are not wrong though about the theater. There is definitely a show western propaganda has put on and a lot of it is demonstratebly wrong.
Back to your denial of being driven by ideology. The first part of recognizing bias is looking at yourself. You have indicated your bias to me multiple times now. Here is how bad it is. You went looking for evidence China has its billionaires under control and you found some state propaganda from several years ago that supports your position. Here is the problem, China has produced the most billionaires for the third year in a row.
I can see you have a long journey ahead deprogramming yourself if you care to. Perhaps you will be happy lapping up eastern propaganda as you used to lap up western. To each his own.
Aside from the thing I’ve done I’ve done nothing. Got it.
I don’t think you know what that phrase means. I don’t dislike the messenger because of the message. I distrust the message because of the messenger, which is perfectly valid. If the messenger is untrustworthy then why should I trust them?? Maybe they’re telling the truth, but they have to go the extra mile to make me trust them. Also why are they the only one? Why is almost every one of the muslim majority nations disbelieving the CIA when it comes to that genocide, but they all believe that there is a genocide in Palestine? Well, all of them except Uyghur advocacy groups, who support pissrael[1] apparently.
My distrust of the messenger comes from how they have acted throughout history. But even if we ignore that the CIA never once, afaik in it’s entire history, was with the side fighting for human rights, but always sided with the oppressors, then there still is the issue that the CIA is not an impartial party in this. They are funding the sufi terrorists. That terrorist network that operated in Xinjiang grew out of the US supported mujaheddin, which grew into the US supported al-qaeda and spread like a malignant tumor all over WACA since. They are deeply embedded in muslim terrorist networks, starting back in the 70s. Their assets are getting imprisoned, their effort getting thwarted, this is like taking whatever Russia is saying about what’s happening in east Ukraine at face value. They have a vested interest in making up or puffing up stories of abuse which is why whatever they saying should be faced with even more intense scrutiny to sort the wheat from the chaff.
That’s what fact-checking is like, and why the gish-gallopping and constant goalshifting is so effective. The devil is in the details as they say. Also I’m never 100% sure what the claim is, all-out genocide, “cultural” genocide, severe human rights violations? Are the mosques razed, altered, renovated what’s the actual position? It’s never really clear.
see that’s what I mean, the paper that I was talking about, the one you linked, asserted that China is “razing […] mosques”, citing a paper where that mosque was under the section “demolished mosques”, but now we’re downgrading to “shutting down and altering”? This blase approach to details is mindboggling when we’re talking about allegations of genocide by an adversarial nation. Imagine if people were talking about pissrael demolishing mosques but it just turns out they are giving them a new facade with hebrew lettering instead of arabic. It would instantly disqualify them (correctly imo) but here we just play fast and loose with the details. Razing centuries old mosques and altering the facade of newly built mosques is all the same after all…
I’ll decide what I believe and what I consider to be up for debate myself. I get that you just believe the western media because you’re that far gone in your ideology, but I think we need to look at falsifiable claims and prove them instead of whatever this is. Also your claim that this is a settled debate is not true at all. Basically no one outside of the western world believes this is happening.
Honestly after seeing pictures used to insinuate a mosque has been razed only to find out that it’s actually very much still standing I don’t believe anything coming out of… cursory glance at the sources again the CIA? this is just goofy now come on
Also you know how I got the mosque wrong and spend so much time confusedly looking at the Kashgar Id Kah mosque? Well the most I could find that was alleged was the removal of a plaque at the gate. Well:
https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202011/17/WS5fb30a8aa31024ad0ba9477a_3.html
I leave it to you to fact-check it if you want. So I don’t expect much from that ft’s articles allegations as well. Also I’ve been very open about the fact that I would only consider post-2023 major happenings as I consider anything before that pretty much settled and don’t have the time to revisit it all.
backed and financed by the CIA. Do you think that organisations like radio free asia operate independently from the CIA? It’s just a front for the CIA.
My self-indoctrination by looking at the allegations in details and coming to my own conclusions? As if you haven’t been indoctrinated to deny the genocide of the white farmers in South Africa
(a position I would agree with, there is no white genocide in SA). Also your assertion that I “look up to China or Russia” is again you just thinking you know what’s going when you clearly don’t and are wrong. I don’t “look up” to any nation. But I believe that some nations are way more evil than others.
What evidence
? No, what I believe is that they have a bunch of uyghur people who, for various reasons, chose the US over the PRC. Now, they know that the financial support they receive in the countries they live in is contingent on them being useful to the propaganda effort else they get dropped. See e.g. Guan Heng[2]. So they take a story like the Keriye Id Kah mosque’s gatehouse getting demolished and puff it up as if the entire mosque was destroyed. This is already a known phenomenon see e.g. Yeonmi Park for a particularly egregious example.
Yeah same to you, yours is somewhat longer though
the gall to think that I am just “lapping up propaganda” instead of fact-checking, when it was fact-checking that got me where I am is just utter projection. This will also likely be my last message in this chain. I think I’ve shown what I intended to show, whether you’re willing to actually look or just dismiss it all with a sneer is of course up to you.
https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/why-uyghur-groups-have-contradictory-stances-on-israel-hamas-war-13813376.html ↩︎
https://www.npr.org/2025/12/17/g-s1-102229/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-us-deportation ↩︎
oh wouldn’t you look at that the UHPR is a NED project[1]. Because of course it is. What a colossal waste of my time.
https://www.ned.org/uyghur-human-rights-policy-act-builds-on-work-of-ned-grantees/ ↩︎