And there’s plenty of reasons for China to do this - they’ve long seen the land there as Chinese, regardless of the people living on it. Not to mention natural resources, extending borders, marshaling resources to fight capitalist imperialism, et cetera, et cetera…
Secondly, this is the reason I’m asking people what they think genocide is. The ICC would define genocide very narrowly, just the slaughter of people en masse based on ethnicity. Historians and academics actually have a much broader view of genocide, including cultural replacement actions like eliminating languages, displacement, and destruction of culturally important locations. Israel does all of this to Palestine, as well as the USA and Canada to native peoples.
So let’s leave the rubric of “genocide” and consider what the CCP is actually doing there. It seems obvious that they want to erase Uyghur culture and replace it with Han. There can be reasons for Uyghurs to want Chinese intervention, and reasons not. But as an individualist Westerner, I consider consent to be one of the most important virtues in society, and China is radically altering (if not erasing) Uyghur land and culture without any consent on the part of the Uyghurs. In my view, it’s just the same imperialism and colonialism that the West has been doing for centuries. Do you agree? What did I get wrong?
I wanted to know how you formed your opinion, and I also had never heard of Xiaohongshu before (I just now made the connection that it’s RedNote). So, cool.
I’m not confident of what’s happening in Xinjiang. I know I’m surrounded by US/Western propaganda, and I’m trying to cut through it without succumbing to anyone else’s propaganda.
I grew up in a liberal society, and sometimes ML Theory seems like a really strange way of looking at the world. So I’m not building any opinions based on what I guess someone’s motivations are (especially the CCP).
I’ve been given to believe that genocide is a liberal idea, because it’s couched in false consciousness ideas about race and ethnicity. So a hypothetical AES state could commit mass murder, but not necessarily genocide. What do you think?
Thanks for sharing all that. I think you and I have a lot in common, actually. I grew up as a Jehovah’s Witness, and never really felt close to that community. I’ve always felt like an outsider as well, but I think we diverge in that I identify with my outsider-ness and appreciate the freedom of individuality. But I also identify as an introvert, happier on my own or with close friends than with large groups or strangers. I wonder if there’s some overlap there? Do you consider yourself introverted or extroverted?
Oh yeah definitely an introvert, also since I grew up in a muslim-majority country where the christian community was very tight-knit coming to Germany I definitely felt more like an outsider to the communities here, overwhelmed by the amount of choice of communities really at first, but lately the lack of communities that I could feel at ease at due to my antizionism. But there’s a lot of good in being part of any organization, having a role and helping out to oneself which is why I’ll be looking for another community once I have some more free time.
I don’t know where you exactly are, but a soup kitchen or something like that where you help once a week is a really cool thing to hone social-skills in a low-risk setting since you can just stop going there at any time. Also it’s really fun to be in charge of something, and to be “the person” so thats cool.
Same logic would be used to say no Native American or Palestinian genocide either.
I don’t follow? We have way more evidence of both genocides, both of the actions, mass killings, child abductions etc., as well as propaganda campaigns to stoke hatred and fear. Neither group is very free to practice their religions and culture, facing harassment and red tape etc. I don’t see the parallels at all.
I am sorry, but I don’t buy it for a second.
I’m not looking to convince, I’m just giving my POV as asked. These were the types of questions I saw the tankies be able to answer and that’s what ultimately convinced me that the whole thing is just a US propaganda psy-op. Back in like 2019-2020 I was breathlessly reading “Der Spiegel” articles about systematic rape of uyghur women in prisons and bought into it wholesale. I got flipped, so to speak, in 2023 or so. So what I’m portraying here is what people that want to “flip” me back are up against.
Westerners deciding to crack down on Muslims equals bad but Chinese equals good. If you think there is logical consistency with tankies you got another thing coming.
Are you surprised the world is not making a bigger deal out of Muslim suppression? Not me, par for the course.
There is almost no proof of the Native American Genocide so I guess it must have never happened. Looks like the natives are doing just fine with their casinos!
So dumb it hurts.
And then you deny the rapes!? What in the literal fuck is wrong with you.
Oh you are just playing devil’s advocate as a pretend tanky!?
Sure no proof except countless stories. The thing is this is human nature. Be it detention or “reeducation” rape always goes hand in hand. It doesn’t matter where in the world you are. This is the injustice of concentrating people.
What am I talking about!? Denialism. I can show you pictures of Native Americans smiling and dancing. Can you please provide a sourced 2026 article with photographic evidence that proves that the Native Americans experienced genocide?
This is the bar tankies use and then if you do produce evidence they begin to discredit. They are not acting in good faith.
I don’t care!? I am not the one using tanky talking points to dismiss human rights violation. So dumb it hurts.
Please extol tankies some more. It really shows your impartiality. I love the “your kind” as well. Openly admitting you a human rights violator apologist and a bigot is bold for sure.
Fact, China built concentration camps. Fact, China concentrated a specific population there. Fact, China violated human rights.
Please save me your tanky propaganda ramblings. You deny human experiences for your own benefit. You are a human rights abuser and apparently proud of it. This will be your tag here on Lemmy.
So you don’t think it’s genocide? How come? This is a complicated issue and I’m legitimately seeking information
Removed by mod
You referred to Wikipedia as an authority earlier, so here’s some Wikipedia commentary about recent developments in Xinjiang: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China#Classification_of_abuses
And an article about terrorism/resistance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China#Xinjiang
And there’s plenty of reasons for China to do this - they’ve long seen the land there as Chinese, regardless of the people living on it. Not to mention natural resources, extending borders, marshaling resources to fight capitalist imperialism, et cetera, et cetera…
Secondly, this is the reason I’m asking people what they think genocide is. The ICC would define genocide very narrowly, just the slaughter of people en masse based on ethnicity. Historians and academics actually have a much broader view of genocide, including cultural replacement actions like eliminating languages, displacement, and destruction of culturally important locations. Israel does all of this to Palestine, as well as the USA and Canada to native peoples.
So let’s leave the rubric of “genocide” and consider what the CCP is actually doing there. It seems obvious that they want to erase Uyghur culture and replace it with Han. There can be reasons for Uyghurs to want Chinese intervention, and reasons not. But as an individualist Westerner, I consider consent to be one of the most important virtues in society, and China is radically altering (if not erasing) Uyghur land and culture without any consent on the part of the Uyghurs. In my view, it’s just the same imperialism and colonialism that the West has been doing for centuries. Do you agree? What did I get wrong?
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Thanks for sharing all that. I think you and I have a lot in common, actually. I grew up as a Jehovah’s Witness, and never really felt close to that community. I’ve always felt like an outsider as well, but I think we diverge in that I identify with my outsider-ness and appreciate the freedom of individuality. But I also identify as an introvert, happier on my own or with close friends than with large groups or strangers. I wonder if there’s some overlap there? Do you consider yourself introverted or extroverted?
Oh yeah definitely an introvert, also since I grew up in a muslim-majority country where the christian community was very tight-knit coming to Germany I definitely felt more like an outsider to the communities here, overwhelmed by the amount of choice of communities really at first, but lately the lack of communities that I could feel at ease at due to my antizionism. But there’s a lot of good in being part of any organization, having a role and helping out to oneself which is why I’ll be looking for another community once I have some more free time.
I don’t know where you exactly are, but a soup kitchen or something like that where you help once a week is a really cool thing to hone social-skills in a low-risk setting since you can just stop going there at any time. Also it’s really fun to be in charge of something, and to be “the person” so thats cool.
Look at this guy. Same logic would be used to say no Native American or Palestinian genocide either.
I am sorry, but I don’t buy it for a second.
I don’t follow? We have way more evidence of both genocides, both of the actions, mass killings, child abductions etc., as well as propaganda campaigns to stoke hatred and fear. Neither group is very free to practice their religions and culture, facing harassment and red tape etc. I don’t see the parallels at all.
I’m not looking to convince, I’m just giving my POV as asked. These were the types of questions I saw the tankies be able to answer and that’s what ultimately convinced me that the whole thing is just a US propaganda psy-op. Back in like 2019-2020 I was breathlessly reading “Der Spiegel” articles about systematic rape of uyghur women in prisons and bought into it wholesale. I got flipped, so to speak, in 2023 or so. So what I’m portraying here is what people that want to “flip” me back are up against.
No proof, a psyop, you believe tankies!? Oh my God.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_Hard_Campaign_Against_Violent_Terrorism
Westerners deciding to crack down on Muslims equals bad but Chinese equals good. If you think there is logical consistency with tankies you got another thing coming.
Are you surprised the world is not making a bigger deal out of Muslim suppression? Not me, par for the course.
There is almost no proof of the Native American Genocide so I guess it must have never happened. Looks like the natives are doing just fine with their casinos!
So dumb it hurts.
And then you deny the rapes!? What in the literal fuck is wrong with you.
Oh you are just playing devil’s advocate as a pretend tanky!?
https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/allegations-of-shackled-students-and-gang-rape-inside-china-s-detention-camps
Sure no proof except countless stories. The thing is this is human nature. Be it detention or “reeducation” rape always goes hand in hand. It doesn’t matter where in the world you are. This is the injustice of concentrating people.
Removed by mod
What am I talking about!? Denialism. I can show you pictures of Native Americans smiling and dancing. Can you please provide a sourced 2026 article with photographic evidence that proves that the Native Americans experienced genocide?
This is the bar tankies use and then if you do produce evidence they begin to discredit. They are not acting in good faith.
I don’t care!? I am not the one using tanky talking points to dismiss human rights violation. So dumb it hurts.
Please extol tankies some more. It really shows your impartiality. I love the “your kind” as well. Openly admitting you a human rights violator apologist and a bigot is bold for sure.
Fact, China built concentration camps. Fact, China concentrated a specific population there. Fact, China violated human rights.
Please save me your tanky propaganda ramblings. You deny human experiences for your own benefit. You are a human rights abuser and apparently proud of it. This will be your tag here on Lemmy.