Really? i get handheld terminal command lines with embedded copy functions when i search for solutions to my Mint problems. It’s a pretty kind and helpful community.
I imagine most Linux communities have half a dozen or so online users, at any given time, just refreshing the New Posts section waiting to fix someone’s problem and blow their mind.
There’s a misguided imagination cloud about Linux, then in reality the incredible wealth of help and support Linux users invest and receive.
It’s the FOSS “lone-wolf” thing. If you feel like you’re on the outside, each Linux user sounds like a crazed wasteland wanderer.
Meanwhile, we’re using comfortably customized environments curated and supported by our community, updating in the background, and enjoying stable 20-second boots.
!It’s really fun when they start arguing and blowing each others minds.
And I bet they’d introduce the kitty to the power of sudo pretty quickly… though giving the new murder hobo the power of sudo seems less wise than teaching Microsoft support peeps the power of grep.
I mean, look at that little guy. He’s totally gonna take over the world.
(Fuck it. Can’t be worse than the current assholes)
Mint is great for that. Fedora also offers up cookbook style instructions that can show both GUI and terminal commands. It’s a great way for newbies to get used to both methods.
That gets a lot of people in trouble and I really advise against giving people terminal commands when it can be avoided. Unless the person already is familiar with the terminal, they’re just typing magic words into a black box and it reinforces the stereotype that Linux is this complicated and arcane thing.
Yeah, the terminal is much more universal on Linux distros.
People will have wildly different GUI environments. I have no idea how to do thing X in all of KDE Plasma or GNOME or Xfce or Cinnamon or whatever. But outside of package management and some systemwide config, most Linux distros work pretty much the same way at a bash prompt.
Command line is easier for the person giving it but it teaches nothing to the person using it and I agree with the previous poster, just reinforces the idea that Linux is this mysterious non-understandable os. Many knowledgeable people in the community love to gatekeep so it works out in their favor and no one else’s.
That’s nice, right until you have to troubleshoot why the other person is having difficulty following the instructions. My not-entirely-but-still-mostly-strawman scenario (specifically with the RPi Imager) where that approach fails:
Run the application. If it asks for a password and then nothing happens, then you’ll need to use pkexec to launch it with root privileges, run pkexec env $(env) DISPLAY=:1 /path/to/application. The main window will look like a wizard utility with the steps on the left and input fields on the right. Follow the instructions until step 4. Then complete step 4, but DO NOT click “next”. A gear icon should appear.
No, not the gear icon on the top, the large gear icon on the bottom right. It didn’t appear? Okay, go back to step 2 and make sure the “full” option is selected. Now go to step 4 and reenter everything. Still nothing? Send me a screenshot. Okay, the “hostname” field must not contain a hyphen, replace it with an underscore. Wait, which version of the app are you running? Go to the small gear menu, click on “About”, and send me the version number… okay, nevermind, that version doesn’t support this specific feature, you’ll have to update.
I had to have this conversation with myself. Conducting it over an internet forum with a stranger of questionable technical skills is my definition of hell.
One “simple” command that could do anything including killing their entire PC vs detailed instructions of something they can follow and understand, especially if you include pictures.
If you want people in your community, treat them with respect.
Not that I particularly want to get involved—I do also like inxi—but you can launch Info Center (kinfocenter) from krunner, the application menu, or under About this System in System Settings to get a good amount of this information and more.
Info Center is good, but getting the information into a forum post isn’t easy. With inxi, it’s just copy and paste. Just one simple example where the terminal is better.
What if the person you’re helping has a different UI language? Or when buttons get hidden based on available screen space? Or when you need to get an older person to use a dropdown menu with hover and click options?
Sure it’s doable, but it’s so much easier to just copy and paste a command. Of course, whenever I tell someone to do something like this, it comes with a lot of warnings about the shell. If they’re close enough I just tell them to never run a random command without consulting me first.
Very often you want the other person to learn (memorize) the way to do something.
And most of the time that person (in my experience) is an elder being or something, so they prefer UI and I don’t want to die on a hill of making them relearn their ways.
And that’s OK. It does get them to open the term and see it and use it a little - copy/pasta is how we all started out. (Truth is, I still copy/pasta after more than 20 years should perhaps need) But that does not negate the GUI experience. I like and use the GUI every time I can.
But I understand the need for the Cli too. I can often use it to better see where a problem is. Something my GUI lovin’ lazy butt doesn’t always do.
Really? i get handheld terminal command lines with embedded copy functions when i search for solutions to my Mint problems. It’s a pretty kind and helpful community.
I imagine most Linux communities have half a dozen or so online users, at any given time, just refreshing the New Posts section waiting to fix someone’s problem and blow their mind.
There’s a misguided imagination cloud about Linux, then in reality the incredible wealth of help and support Linux users invest and receive.
It’s the FOSS “lone-wolf” thing. If you feel like you’re on the outside, each Linux user sounds like a crazed wasteland wanderer.
Meanwhile, we’re using comfortably customized environments curated and supported by our community, updating in the background, and enjoying stable 20-second boots.
!It’s really fun when they start arguing and blowing each others minds.
And I bet they’d introduce the kitty to the power of sudo pretty quickly… though giving the new murder hobo the power of sudo seems less wise than teaching Microsoft support peeps the power of grep.
I mean, look at that little guy. He’s totally gonna take over the world.
(Fuck it. Can’t be worse than the current assholes)
You can indeed use sudo in kitty: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/
Gotta teach em bad habits early. That way they break things before it matters to much and they can learn!
I did, for a while, subscribe to the RSS feed of a Linux forum to help people xD
Mint is great for that. Fedora also offers up cookbook style instructions that can show both GUI and terminal commands. It’s a great way for newbies to get used to both methods.
Mint community’s first solution is always “have you tried just not doing that?”.
Never got that one before, I always get multiple solutions and workarounds until a problem is solved.
That gets a lot of people in trouble and I really advise against giving people terminal commands when it can be avoided. Unless the person already is familiar with the terminal, they’re just typing magic words into a black box and it reinforces the stereotype that Linux is this complicated and arcane thing.
Just tell them it’s a very basic AI chat and so you need to be precise in instruction
It’s more complicated to describe how to do something in a gui and it will only work for one environment if it’s set up the same way.
Yeah, the terminal is much more universal on Linux distros.
People will have wildly different GUI environments. I have no idea how to do thing X in all of KDE Plasma or GNOME or Xfce or Cinnamon or whatever. But outside of package management and some systemwide config, most Linux distros work pretty much the same way at a bash prompt.
And GUI feels like black magic too if the person doesn’t know what’s going on.
Yes, but at least they will understand the solution.
You can also just compile a script that they just have to execute, but they will understand even less and are way more likely to install malware.
Command line is easier for the person giving it but it teaches nothing to the person using it and I agree with the previous poster, just reinforces the idea that Linux is this mysterious non-understandable os. Many knowledgeable people in the community love to gatekeep so it works out in their favor and no one else’s.
Does this one have a soul?
Nope.
Is it? I usually chain names of buttons or something like that:
File - Create - From templates
That’s nice, right until you have to troubleshoot why the other person is having difficulty following the instructions. My not-entirely-but-still-mostly-strawman scenario (specifically with the RPi Imager) where that approach fails:
I had to have this conversation with myself. Conducting it over an internet forum with a stranger of questionable technical skills is my definition of hell.
One simple command vs:
Go to your start menu
Search for program name
Click on it
Scroll down about half way
Click the <Button>
Enter <Some text>
Click the <Button>
Click the <Button> in the popup
And if that’s done in Gnome, does it help a KDE user, Xfce, Mate? I think not. And that’s if the gui handles the problem at all.
Of course, the command comes with an explanation of what it does.
One “simple” command that could do anything including killing their entire PC vs detailed instructions of something they can follow and understand, especially if you include pictures.
If you want people in your community, treat them with respect.
Trolls, who like to corrupt people’s data, exist. A GUI procedure is almost always safer.
Tell me how to gather this information from the GUI. Plasma for preference please.
>>> inxi -exzz ±[●][master] System: Kernel: 7.2.8-200.fc44.x86_64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 16.2.1 Desktop: KDE Plasma v: 6.7.5 Distro: Fedora Linux 44 (KDE Plasma Desktop Edition) Machine: Type: Desktop System: Intel Client Systems product: NUC8i7BEH v: J72992-303 serial: <superuser required> Mobo: Intel model: NUC8BEB v: J72688-303 serial: <superuser required> Firmware: UEFI vendor: Intel v: BECFL357.86A.0056.2018.1128.1717 date: 11/28/2018 Battery: Device-1: hidpp_battery_1 model: Logitech Wireless Mouse MX Master 2S charge: 100% (should be ignored) status: discharging CPU: Info: quad core model: Intel Core i7-8559U bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Coffee Lake rev: A cache: L1: 256 KiB L2: 1024 KiB L3: 8 MiB Speed (MHz): avg: 1132 min/max: 400/2700 cores: 1: 1132 2: 1132 3: 1132 4: 1132 5: 1132 6: 1132 7: 1132 8: 1132 bogomips: 43198 Flags-basic: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx Graphics: Device-1: Intel CoffeeLake-U GT3e [Iris Plus Graphics 655] driver: i915 v: kernel arch: Gen-9.5 bus-ID: 00:02.0 Display: wayland server: Xwayland v: 24.1.13 compositor: kwin_wayland driver: X: loaded: nvidia unloaded: modesetting gpu: i915 resolution: 1: 2560x1440~60Hz 2: 2560x1440~60Hz API: EGL v: 1.5 drivers: iris,swrast platforms: active: gbm,wayland,x11,surfaceless,device inactive: N/A API: OpenGL v: 4.6 compat-v: 4.5 vendor: intel mesa v: 26.0.3 glx-v: 1.4 direct-render: yes renderer: Mesa Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655 (CFL GT3) API: Vulkan v: 1.4.341 drivers: intel,llvmpipe surfaces: N/A devices: 2 Info: Tools: api: clinfo, eglinfo, glxinfo, vulkaninfo de: kscreen-console,kscreen-doctor wl: wayland-info x11: xdriinfo, xdpyinfo, xprop, xrandr Audio: Device-1: Intel Cannon Point-LP High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1f.3 API: ALSA v: k7.2.8-200.fc44.x86_64 status: kernel-api Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.6.9 status: active Network: Device-1: Intel Cannon Point-LP CNVi [Wireless-AC] driver: iwlwifi v: kernel bus-ID: 00:14.3 IF: wlp0s20f3 state: down mac: <filter> Device-2: Intel Ethernet I219-V driver: e1000e v: kernel port: N/A bus-ID: 00:1f.6 IF: eno1 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> Bluetooth: Device-1: Intel Bluetooth 9460/9560 Jefferson Peak (JfP) driver: btusb v: 0.8 type: USB bus-ID: 1-10:3 Report: btmgmt ID: hci0 rfk-id: 0 state: up address: <filter> bt-v: 5.1 lmp-v: 10 Drives: Local Storage: total: 2.81 TiB used: 920.76 GiB (32.0%) ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: A-Data model: SU800NS38 size: 119.24 GiB ID-2: /dev/sdb vendor: Toshiba model: Q300 size: 894.25 GiB ID-3: /dev/sdc vendor: Samsung model: ST2000LM003 HN-M201RAD size: 1.82 TiB type: USB Partition: ID-1: / size: 116.66 GiB used: 18.42 GiB (15.8%) fs: btrfs dev: /dev/sda3 ID-2: /boot size: 1.9 GiB used: 442.1 MiB (22.7%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda2 ID-3: /boot/efi size: 598.8 MiB used: 20.1 MiB (3.4%) fs: vfat dev: /dev/sda1 ID-4: /home size: 893.82 GiB used: 246.53 GiB (27.6%) fs: xfs dev: /dev/sdb1 Swap: ID-1: swap-1 type: zram size: 8 GiB used: 827.8 MiB (10.1%) dev: /dev/zram0 Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 43.0 C pch: 49.0 C mobo: N/A Fan Speeds (rpm): N/A Info: Memory: total: 32 GiB available: 31.2 GiB used: 9.3 GiB (29.8%) Processes: 357 Uptime: 1d 3h 26m Init: systemd Packages: 7 note: see --rpm Compilers: clang: 22.1.8 gcc: 16.2.1 Shell: Zsh v: 5.9 inxi: 3.3.41Not that I particularly want to get involved—I do also like
inxi—but you can launch Info Center (kinfocenter) fromkrunner, the application menu, or under About this System in System Settings to get a good amount of this information and more.Info Center is good, but getting the information into a forum post isn’t easy. With inxi, it’s just copy and paste. Just one simple example where the terminal is better.
I don’t know, it isn’t that hard for me to help others with UI. 🤷
What if the person you’re helping has a different UI language? Or when buttons get hidden based on available screen space? Or when you need to get an older person to use a dropdown menu with hover and click options?
Sure it’s doable, but it’s so much easier to just copy and paste a command. Of course, whenever I tell someone to do something like this, it comes with a lot of warnings about the shell. If they’re close enough I just tell them to never run a random command without consulting me first.
Very often you want the other person to learn (memorize) the way to do something.
And most of the time that person (in my experience) is an elder being or something, so they prefer UI and I don’t want to die on a hill of making them relearn their ways.
After all, what use are detailed instructions and explanations?
And that’s OK. It does get them to open the term and see it and use it a little - copy/pasta is how we all started out. (Truth is, I still copy/pasta after more than 20 years should perhaps need) But that does not negate the GUI experience. I like and use the GUI every time I can.
But I understand the need for the Cli too. I can often use it to better see where a problem is. Something my GUI lovin’ lazy butt doesn’t always do.